18 ms·
Suspend for the X1 Carbon 2018 on Linux
- rubbingalcohol 8y agoIt's probably because Lenovo's suspend feature relies on an unsigned binary blob from China sideloaded during system boot over an unsecure HTTP connection. Why anyone still trusts Lenovo enough for this sort of thing to come up as an issue is beyond me.
- organsnyder 8y agoCitation on that? Never heard that before, and I own two ThinkPads (including a four-month-old T480).
- rubbingalcohol 8y agohttps://www.makeuseof.com/tag/security-failings-demonstrate-avoid-lenovo/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/security-failings-demonstrate-... Or who could forget Lenovo's surveillance malware that performed man-in-the-middle attacks on SSL traffic? Seriously, these machines should be banned for sale in the U.S. on national security grounds.
- pritambaral 8y agoDell has done similar things in the past, too. Intel has its ME, which is much worse than any of these. AMD has its own ME-equivalent.
- rubbingalcohol 8y agoIntel Management Engine is worse than secretly installing an SSL MitM and sending browsing data to an adware company run by former Israeli spies? Give me a break. Intel ME is worrisome. Lenovo's behavior was actually malicious. There's kind of a difference.
- pritambaral 8y agoLenovo Superfish was incompetently malicious. The ME allows Intel to competently pull off far more nefarious activities than blindly forwarding all browsing data and easily evade detection. Superfish was removable. The ME is far from it. There are alternatives to using Lenovo software or hardware, thus Superfish is even completely avoidable. The ME and its AMD equivalent are not. Both are worrisome. Backdoor-in-hardware is far more worrisome.
- Kliment 8y agoME is removable. Coreboot devs will often remove it for you if you meet them in real life and ask nicely. I've since got a setup for doing that myself so if you are ever around me in real life ask nicely and I'll remove it from your machine
- pritambaral 8y ago> ME is removable. With proper hardware tooling and care, perhaps. (Side question: even for latest gen chips?) For the vast majority of people, ME is not removable. For the AMD users, AMD's ME equivalent is not removable.
- Kliment 8y agoYes, even for latest gen chips. See http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html for details. me_cleaner supports this method.
- philsnow 8y agothat link says nothing about > Lenovo's suspend feature relies on an unsigned binary blob from China sideloaded during system boot over an unsecure HTTP connection it talks about Lenovo Service Engine, Superfish, Lenovo Solution Center, and Lenovo Customer Feedback. if you blow away the default install of windows, including the UEFI partition, and install (windows or linux or whatever) from scratch, how could any of those things affect you?
- BlackLotus89 8y agoThere is persistable malware that installs itself on your fresh windows [0] I only use old thinkpads like the t420 (my x61 needs fixing) and w520. Coreboot on the t420 and soon on the w520. Dell Laptops for work. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...
- 1996 8y agoFunny coincidence! I added w520 support to coreboot as a weekend project several years ago! It should still work great on your w520, except there were several power management issues related to the optimus GPU I just couldn't fix. Oh and careful with the RAM if you use 32G as some brands will not work well, because of raminit issue (I haven't followed, maybe they are fixed now)
- rubbingalcohol 8y agoLenovo Service Engine was BIOS-level bloatware loading garbage into clean installs of Windows over HTTP. Lenovo's drivers were so bad that they couldn't get Microsoft WHQL certification, so their BIOS was sideloading them in a very unsecure manner.
- slrz 8y agoNote that this is an official Windows feature and it is the OS that executes the firmware-provided crapware in the first place. It should provide an option to turn it off. Of course, malicious firmware doesn't really depend on the OS's cooperation. It would just be harder to implement and the result a lot more flaky.
- FredFS456 8y agoI'm assuming they're speculating/exaggerating.
- freehunter 8y agoThat's how I read it as well. Kind of rephrasing "I don't know why anyone trusts them after all their high-profile security problems, I wouldn't be surprised if their BIOS was unsigned code loaded over an unsecured HTTP connection."
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- gandreani 8y agoI don't know why the OP posted such a terrible link. I found an alternate one: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2969365/security/lenovos-service-engine-marks-yet-another-bloatware-blunder-for-the-company.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2969365/security/lenovos-ser... It says the Thinkpad lines were never affected by this
- borplk 8y agoThere just aren't enough (better) alternatives in the market.
- aclave1 8y agoI planned to buy this laptop some time this year. Has lenovo stopped supporting linux as well as they used to? I've owned two lenovo laptops and loved them and planned to buy another. I'm also looking at dell laptops since their linux support is reportedly excellent.
- 1996 8y agoI'm considering a Fujitsu lifebook U937 to replace my thinkpad.
- n0ric 8y agoMy current laptop, the T450s, has full support for linux. My coworker uses a X270, which also seems to run Arch fine. I think it's just the X1 series with these issues.
- nine_k 8y agoGet a T or a W, they are fine, old-school corporate machines. Carbon is the new, fashionable, Macbook-like device with soldered-on RAM, etc; likely from a different design culture. Its biggest upside is likely the hi-res screen.
- namibj 8y agoThere are high-res models in the T-series. I.e., available in both 1080p and 1440p, the latter just at the point where you can use it without High-DPI tech if you have normal 20/20 vision, if you have worse, you want less resolution (as you can't use the higher resolution anyway).
- nine_k 8y agoMy vision is far from 20/20, and I have trouble discerning road signs at a distance, but I can see how pixels are square on most 24" FHD displays. For development, a lot depends on the quality of font antialiasing and hinting, though; Linux used to provide superb font rendering in this regard.
- gtirloni 8y agoUnnecessary headline editorializing. Could we have it changed to the original?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- 1996 8y agoIf you know why S3 does not work on some brands, the editorializing is not unwarranted. There was an active decision to remove working parts of the code. That is shameful.
- gtirloni 8y agoYour other comment is the most upvoted right now because it brings useful technical information to the discussion on S0/S3 states. Anything else is just rehashing old arguments. Readers can take their own conclusions without being manipulated by incendiary editorializing.
- rayiner 8y agoThere is nothing wrong with throwing away obsolete code.
- sctb 8y agoYes, we've reverted the title from “ThinkPad X1 Carbon 2018: S3 Suspend Workaround for Linux (shame on Lenovo)”. The guidelines are clear about this, so submitters should please follow them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 1996 8y agoThis is short on details. So here are some more: since S0 ( active suspend) became more popular with windows 10, most manufacturers have decided to REMOVE THE CODE from the bios that allows S3 (suspend to ram). Worst case is they left the stubs pretending S3 is supported, so the computer goes to sleep - but never wakes up! Dell, I'm looking at you!! Workarounds come from redoing the S3 code, mostly in ACPI tables with triggers - for all peripherals. It is a shame, as in S3 most laptops eat less that 1% of the battery per hour, while in S0 such good results require heavy configuration to prevent the "active" part of active sleep, and make sure the laptop never wakes up until you actually press on the power button. But I guess it is the road to progress, as S0 is more flexible.
- gambiting 8y agoIs that what is happening with the XPS line? My XPS 13 9333 goes to "sleep" but the backlight and the fan stay on, and the only way to revive it is to do a hard reset. And that's on latest windows 10.
- 1996 8y agoYes. You must either cook and inject your own ACPI table (taking inspiration from a similar model to save you time), or go with S0 only using a kernel patch. I have done some bios and acpi code before on coreboot. It is tough, lots of work and no guaranteed results if you don't have access to the specs (NDA) Anyway I really don't recommend you do that unless you have experience, documentation and time.
- xfs 8y agoI don't think this is even S0 suspend. At least a few year ago thinkpads have already moved to something called IRST, Intel's "suspend to SSD after sleeping for several hours" at firmware level. See https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26022.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26022.html for details. I actually got it working with the latest kernel at that time but didn't feel comfortable using it because of all the horror stories with firmware level shenanigans.
- 8y ago
- AdmiralAsshat 8y agoThe fact that the script is open source is great, but I'd be extremely hesitant to download something that patches my laptop's boot sequence without a little more info and/or some comments in the code about exactly what it's doing. Yes, I can see the sed commands, but I have zero idea what it's actually replacing or with what.
- nbsd4life 8y agoYou're editing your ACPI tables, compiling the result, and telling the kernel to use it instead of what it gets from the hardware.
- anon1253 8y agoTrackpad also doesn’t work under Linux with the NFC model. Hardware wise the webcam and sound are beyond horrible. The fan curves are obnoxious and it still gets uncomfortably hot. It’s such a shame, I had high hopes for this laptop but it’s collecting dust in a drawer. Between the sleep states, track pad, thermal issues and throttling, poor audio visuals and battery life … the thing really should never have had that price point.
- rayiner 8y agoI've got that laptop and it's fine in Windows. Maybe the problem is Linux, not the laptop?
- olivil 8y agoI run linux, have the latest BIOS, but it is not the NFC model, with the "HDR" screen and i7-8650U. I idle around 43C and my fan is completely off under 50ish, at which point it (very silently) ramps up. I get 8-10 hours of battery life, and the screen is fantastic (and very very bright). However the speakers are worst than a 200$ smartphones. No issue with the trackpad as it is a non-NFC model. I suggest OP revises his configuration...
- anon1253 8y agoIt’s running Windows now and sleep just works. But the trackpad still randomly stops working after sleep, needing a reboot. I get 2,5 hours of battery with normal usage. And it runs uncomfortably hot and loud but CPU utilization is at 2%. I guess it’s just not my thing or I got a dud, but my experience with Lenovo customer service has been horrible.
- dkhenry 8y agoI have this labtop and have had none of these problems. I am on ubuntu linux with a patched initrd. The trackpad works like a champ, the screen is magnificant and the webcam works great. It does got hot, but only when I am under heavy load. So far this has been a great step up from my 2013 macbook
- jadar 8y agoIt's interesting that this is now necessary on PC laptops to get basic things like suspend/sleep to work. I remember having to apply DSDT patches to make suspend, as well as other basic functionality, work on Hackintosh machines (PCs running macOS.)
- sophistication 8y agoCan it detect the state of the lid and automatically enter suspend & wake up based on it?
- GreaterFool 8y agoThis looks like serious witchcraft. Is it safe? I have some suspend working on X1 2018, not sure which one! Switching from Mac is... hard. My true-wireless bluetooth earbuds don't work too well either. I guess it's gonna take few weeks of tweaking configs to get to a decent situation.
- cp9 8y agoI have a 2018 X1 Carbon with Ubuntu that has perfectly supported suspend. It's never been a problem
- fiji-flo 8y agoUbuntu only supports S0i3 (modern standby) not the normal S3 sleep. S0i3 has some problems like peripheral not working after resume and higher battery drain during "sleep".
- ScarZy 8y agoI have a X270 that's modernish and I'm wondering if this could suffer from the same issue... I can't get it to suspend at all. I'm hoping the sensor is gone, but I'm not sure how to verify that... Thinksupport have changed the mainboard but that didn't fix it. How to check?
- jopsen 8y agoI bought the X1 6th gen, but ended up returning it for a refund due to poor Linux support. There is no excuse for breaking S3 suspend.
- dkhenry 8y agoDid you find anything besides S3 that didn't work? I have the 6th gen X1 and once I patched in ACPI my ubuntu install has worked perfectly.
- kahlonel 8y agoCan you please tell me what the battery life is on Ubuntu (with ACPI patch) vs Windows (with or without ACPI patch)?
- dkhenry 8y agoI didn't have windows on long enough to get solid battery numbers, but on ubuntu I get 8 hours of work use.
- jopsen 8y agoTouchpad was broken... Needed manual tweaking of configs. And even then it seemed I can have different speed for trackpad and touchpad.. I'm not impressed.. Also there is reports the CPU is underclocked on Linux.. And is the patch even a solution that is stable past the next kernel update? Oh, each the mobile broadband didn't work either... Obviously, fingerprint did work as usual... And I couldn't figure out if NFC works.
- bubblethink 8y agoDidn't Lenovo used to get Thinkpads certified by Ubuntu and RH ? Did they give up on it ? That only leaves Dell as the other main vendor (not counting smaller niche players) that still gives a shit. Edit: Looks like they still do, just that certification doesn't mean shit. This is more RH and Canonical's fault than Lenovo's. What's the point of certifying something if you can add a note (as Canonical did) that suspend/resume doesn't work. https://access.redhat.com/ecosystem/hardware/3398131 https://access.redhat.com/ecosystem/hardware/3398131 https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201712-26045/ https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201712-26045/
- rbanffy 8y agoWhen I worked for Canonical, all the cool kids had Thinkpads.
- rafael859 8y ago> Slow Resume from Suspend > This system does not not meet our performance criteria for resuming from suspend, but suspend/resume is functional and other functionality is not affected. Ah, so it does meet their performance criteria after all. The elusive double negative.
- bubblethink 8y agoUpon further reading, there are further issues with this laptop with thermal throttling (only on linux, not windows). And no support for wwan or fingerprint reader. The certification is beyond useless.
- thinkpadboiiii 8y agoMissing S3 standby support is also causing problems with Windows. Leading to battery draining during standby: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X-Series-Laptops/X1-Carbon-6th-Gen-Battery-drain-in-sleep/m-p/4075415 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X-Series-Laptops/X1-Ca...