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Clemency petition for Ross Ulbricht reaches 7,000 signatures in less than 4 days

34 points by mich_op 8y ago

meta_AU 8y ago
Listened to American Kingpin on audiobook during a recent trip. It was pretty entertaining if anyone wants more information on this topic.
jill_oc 8y ago
and hundreds of comments!
- sctb 8y ago
  Please don't use sockpuppets here. We ban them and eventually the main account if it continues.
ucaetano 8y ago
"In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn't mind if he was executed, but then you'd be out your $700k." "I understand, and that is great news about Xin [being kidnapped]. If I understand the situation, he is the one responsible for your loss." "I would like to put a bounty on his head if it's not too much trouble for you. What would be an adequate amount to motivate you to find him? Necessities like this do happen from time to time for a person in my position." "It doesn't have to be clean, and I don't think there are any funds to be retrieved" "Don't want to be a pain here, but the price seems high. Not long ago, I had a clean hit done for $80k." "I've only ever commissioned the one other hit, so I'm still learning this market." "Excellent work." So deserving of clemency...
JeremyBanks 8y ago
> Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did. Unless these transcripts are entire fabrications, he was rather more hands-on with other criminals than this petition is letting on: https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/ https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-bos...
- ekianjo 8y ago
  The violent charges were dropped during the investigation. In effect, he was not judged based on such allegations. Wikipedia: > "Ulbricht was charged with money laundering, computer hacking, conspiracy to traffic narcotics,[26][30] and procuring murder.[27] The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31]" 31 refers to: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross...
  - JeremyBanks 8y ago
    > Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did. The transcripts aren't just evidence of murder, also of his direct involvement with the drug vendors.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      Do you deserve to be in prison for life for dealing drugs, which is a non-violent crime, when rapists get 5.8 years on average?
      - JeremyBanks 8y ago
        > Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did. Maybe they could have asked that question instead of trying to spin this bullshit.
      - ChrisLomont 8y ago
        You're comparing an outlier to an average. Of course you're not going to get the answer you want. Some rapists get multiple life sentences.
  - free652 8y ago
    He was judged (but not charged) on these allegations: >The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31] although the evidence was factored into Ulbricht's sentence.
sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
Well . . . the charges themselves were all for non-violent offenses. But part of the reason why the sentencing was so harsh was that whole thing where he paid to have five people killed. > "I find there is ample and unambiguous evidence that [Ulbricht] commissioned five murders to protect his commercial enterprise," Forrest [the judge in the case] said, leaving out one alleged attempted murder for which Ulbricht was charged in a different case. -- https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbricht-sentenced-life-prison/ https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbrich...
- ekianjo 8y ago
  Maybe you conveniently forget that there was no such proof and that is why the "procuring murder" charge was dropped by the prosecution. > Of the six murder indictments trumpeted by the U.S. government in the days following Ulbricht’s Oct. 2013 arrest, five have fallen off the table and the sixth sits untouched in a separate indictment (legalese for an unproven allegation) that was purposefully left out of the upcoming trial. > Prosecutor Serrin Turner used the murder-for-hire allegations to get the judge to deny bail. Now, Turner isn’t even going to charge Ulbricht with the murders. > Why have six of the most important accusations been left as yet uncharged? > “Maybe you don’t have that proof,” criminal defense attorney Jay Leiderman told the Daily Dot. “Maybe the proof isn’t as good as you thought it was.” > There are a couple of other possibilities that deserve mention. First, there may be informants out there that the prosecution doesn’t want to expose, that they want to use for other cases, so they’re willing to leave half a dozen murders uncharged in order to protect him. Second, they may have determined that a relevant informant is unreliable and can’t be used in trial. > Either way, the murder accusations are buried and uncharged. from: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross...
  - rhombocombus 8y ago
    Apparently in spite of that they still used that evidence in determining his sentencing. I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it it would be the difference between getting pulled over with a lot of drugs vs getting pulled over with a lot of drugs and a lot of guns that you legally own: Even if you only get charged and convicted of the drug possession the case with the trunk full of guns will in all likelihood experience harsher sentencing.
danpalmer 8y ago
I’m a little out of the loop here, but wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone?
- DINKDINK 8y ago
  >wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone? No and that's the legal issue. He's being imprisoned for a crime he crime he hasn't been convicted of.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    No, he's not. He's imprisoned for the crime he was convicted of. The judge, having discretion on how much time he should be imprisoned for, took into account the defendant's character.
clicicgtg 8y ago
So this guy ordered hit men to murder ppl. Of course his dear mom left this out in the petition...
senoroink 8y ago
For everyone mentioning Ross hiring hit men to kill people. He was never charged with that. Prosecutors commonly fabricate a story to paint a picture of a defendant for the jury. We will never know for sure if Ross actually did this but he's innocent until proven guilty.
- mich_op 8y ago
  Thanks for that. For those who want to read more, go to https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ (link to Ross's charges and Ross's indictment and more) Ross's charges at trial were all NON-VIOLENT.
  - gameswithgo 8y ago
    that is completely non convincing
    - senoroink 8y ago
      Regardless if it's convincing or not, he's not guilty of the crime. Imagine this: you steal a bag of Oreos from a 7-11. You are sent to trial. Then the prosecution says you also killed some dude. When all is said and done, you are convicted of shoplifting and receive an insane amount of time in prison but were never actually charged with murder, wouldn't you think that the jury was manipulated?
      - s73v3r_ 8y ago
        No, I wouldn't. Because the jury has nothing to do with the sentencing. The prosecution also wouldn't just make up the story of killing some dude; there would be some evidence to link me to that action. Stop pretending that Ulbricht is some kind of saint, and that there is no evidence of him doing this.
        senoroink 8y ago
        I don't disagree that there may be some kind of evidence to link to that action. But I do believe that evidence can be tampered with to create the illusion. Seriously, a chat transcript is what people cite as evidence? We as a society should doubt accusations until they've been proven to be factual. There's been numerous cases of people being exonerated of a crime [1] after spending years of their life inside prison. I'm not trying to pretend that Ulbricht is a saint. He deserves to be in prison for running an illegal market. But if that's all he was ever convicted of, then I believe that the punishment of a double life sentence doesn't fit the crime. * [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_i...
mich_op 8y ago
Guys, for those who want to bring up the unproven, uncharged murder stuff, please read https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ Ross's been smeared in the media enough, let's just help the guy.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  No, let's not help the guy. He's not deserving of help. And despite you wanting to claim the murder stuff is "unproven and uncharged", the evidence of his involvement is pretty clear.
blitmap 8y ago
He tried to have 5 people professionally executed. He broke the law and facilitated others breaking the law because he felt laws took away his personal liberties. He is incompatible with this society and he's dangerous..
ekianjo 8y ago
And meanwhile Paul Le Roux, who is actually a real drug kingpin and who has ordered the murders of several people across the world (with a well proven track of evidence) is not in prison and is working for the DEA. https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-deal https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-deal Makes sense.
Simulacra 8y ago
I think life was much too severe. Yes he did bad things, but people who actually murdered other people get out of prison, why can’t he?

34 points by mich_op 8y ago

Listened to American Kingpin on audiobook during a recent trip. It was pretty entertaining if anyone wants more information on this topic.

jill_oc 8y ago

and hundreds of comments!

sctb 8y ago
Please don't use sockpuppets here. We ban them and eventually the main account if it continues.

ucaetano 8y ago

"In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn't mind if he was executed, but then you'd be out your $700k." "I understand, and that is great news about Xin [being kidnapped]. If I understand the situation, he is the one responsible for your loss." "I would like to put a bounty on his head if it's not too much trouble for you. What would be an adequate amount to motivate you to find him? Necessities like this do happen from time to time for a person in my position." "It doesn't have to be clean, and I don't think there are any funds to be retrieved" "Don't want to be a pain here, but the price seems high. Not long ago, I had a clean hit done for $80k." "I've only ever commissioned the one other hit, so I'm still learning this market." "Excellent work." So deserving of clemency...

JeremyBanks 8y ago

> Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did. Unless these transcripts are entire fabrications, he was rather more hands-on with other criminals than this petition is letting on: https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/ https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-bos...

ekianjo 8y ago
The violent charges were dropped during the investigation. In effect, he was not judged based on such allegations. Wikipedia: > "Ulbricht was charged with money laundering, computer hacking, conspiracy to traffic narcotics,[26][30] and procuring murder.[27] The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31]" 31 refers to: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross...
- JeremyBanks 8y ago
  > Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did. The transcripts aren't just evidence of murder, also of his direct involvement with the drug vendors.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    Do you deserve to be in prison for life for dealing drugs, which is a non-violent crime, when rapists get 5.8 years on average?
    - JeremyBanks 8y ago
      > Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did. Maybe they could have asked that question instead of trying to spin this bullshit.
    - ChrisLomont 8y ago
      You're comparing an outlier to an average. Of course you're not going to get the answer you want. Some rapists get multiple life sentences.
- free652 8y ago
  He was judged (but not charged) on these allegations: >The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31] although the evidence was factored into Ulbricht's sentence.

sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago

Well . . . the charges themselves were all for non-violent offenses. But part of the reason why the sentencing was so harsh was that whole thing where he paid to have five people killed. > "I find there is ample and unambiguous evidence that [Ulbricht] commissioned five murders to protect his commercial enterprise," Forrest [the judge in the case] said, leaving out one alleged attempted murder for which Ulbricht was charged in a different case. -- https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbricht-sentenced-life-prison/ https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbrich...

ekianjo 8y ago
Maybe you conveniently forget that there was no such proof and that is why the "procuring murder" charge was dropped by the prosecution. > Of the six murder indictments trumpeted by the U.S. government in the days following Ulbricht’s Oct. 2013 arrest, five have fallen off the table and the sixth sits untouched in a separate indictment (legalese for an unproven allegation) that was purposefully left out of the upcoming trial. > Prosecutor Serrin Turner used the murder-for-hire allegations to get the judge to deny bail. Now, Turner isn’t even going to charge Ulbricht with the murders. > Why have six of the most important accusations been left as yet uncharged? > “Maybe you don’t have that proof,” criminal defense attorney Jay Leiderman told the Daily Dot. “Maybe the proof isn’t as good as you thought it was.” > There are a couple of other possibilities that deserve mention. First, there may be informants out there that the prosecution doesn’t want to expose, that they want to use for other cases, so they’re willing to leave half a dozen murders uncharged in order to protect him. Second, they may have determined that a relevant informant is unreliable and can’t be used in trial. > Either way, the murder accusations are buried and uncharged. from: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/ https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross...
- rhombocombus 8y ago
  Apparently in spite of that they still used that evidence in determining his sentencing. I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it it would be the difference between getting pulled over with a lot of drugs vs getting pulled over with a lot of drugs and a lot of guns that you legally own: Even if you only get charged and convicted of the drug possession the case with the trunk full of guns will in all likelihood experience harsher sentencing.

danpalmer 8y ago

I’m a little out of the loop here, but wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone?

DINKDINK 8y ago
>wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone? No and that's the legal issue. He's being imprisoned for a crime he crime he hasn't been convicted of.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  No, he's not. He's imprisoned for the crime he was convicted of. The judge, having discretion on how much time he should be imprisoned for, took into account the defendant's character.

clicicgtg 8y ago

So this guy ordered hit men to murder ppl. Of course his dear mom left this out in the petition...

senoroink 8y ago

For everyone mentioning Ross hiring hit men to kill people. He was never charged with that. Prosecutors commonly fabricate a story to paint a picture of a defendant for the jury. We will never know for sure if Ross actually did this but he's innocent until proven guilty.

mich_op 8y ago
Thanks for that. For those who want to read more, go to https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ (link to Ross's charges and Ross's indictment and more) Ross's charges at trial were all NON-VIOLENT.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  that is completely non convincing
  - senoroink 8y ago
    Regardless if it's convincing or not, he's not guilty of the crime. Imagine this: you steal a bag of Oreos from a 7-11. You are sent to trial. Then the prosecution says you also killed some dude. When all is said and done, you are convicted of shoplifting and receive an insane amount of time in prison but were never actually charged with murder, wouldn't you think that the jury was manipulated?
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      No, I wouldn't. Because the jury has nothing to do with the sentencing. The prosecution also wouldn't just make up the story of killing some dude; there would be some evidence to link me to that action. Stop pretending that Ulbricht is some kind of saint, and that there is no evidence of him doing this.
      - senoroink 8y ago
        I don't disagree that there may be some kind of evidence to link to that action. But I do believe that evidence can be tampered with to create the illusion. Seriously, a chat transcript is what people cite as evidence? We as a society should doubt accusations until they've been proven to be factual. There's been numerous cases of people being exonerated of a crime [1] after spending years of their life inside prison. I'm not trying to pretend that Ulbricht is a saint. He deserves to be in prison for running an illegal market. But if that's all he was ever convicted of, then I believe that the punishment of a double life sentence doesn't fit the crime. * [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_i...

mich_op 8y ago

Guys, for those who want to bring up the unproven, uncharged murder stuff, please read https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ Ross's been smeared in the media enough, let's just help the guy.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
No, let's not help the guy. He's not deserving of help. And despite you wanting to claim the murder stuff is "unproven and uncharged", the evidence of his involvement is pretty clear.

blitmap 8y ago

He tried to have 5 people professionally executed. He broke the law and facilitated others breaking the law because he felt laws took away his personal liberties. He is incompatible with this society and he's dangerous..

ekianjo 8y ago

And meanwhile Paul Le Roux, who is actually a real drug kingpin and who has ordered the murders of several people across the world (with a well proven track of evidence) is not in prison and is working for the DEA. https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-deal https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-deal Makes sense.

Simulacra 8y ago

I think life was much too severe. Yes he did bad things, but people who actually murdered other people get out of prison, why can’t he?