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I guess their payment processor got sick of handling thousand of tiny payment and gave them a random excuse to boot them out asap.

by maeln 8y ago

espadrine 8y ago
> Mangopay hasn’t provided a detailed explanation of their decision, so we’re not sure. We’ve tried to understand their concerns, they seemed related to the fact that Liberapay is open to everyone Likelier: Liberapay’s KYC was insufficient. Mangopay probably received a call from the regulator, and they realized that they could not ensure that Liberapay was not (unwittingly) letting people launder money or finance terrorism. The AML/CFT requirements that would have needed to be applied by Liberapay to all its users would probably have caused such friction that they would have grown much slower, however.
- maeln 8y ago
  It is also a strong possibility but wouldn't Mangopay would have given some time for Librapay to adapt to the regulation ? The fact that they stop the contract so soon without previous warning (unless Librapay is not disclosing everything) is what make it really weird for me.
  - calpaterson 8y ago
    > It is also a strong possibility but wouldn't Mangopay would have given some time for Librapay to adapt to the regulation ? No anti-money laundering law doesn't work that way > The fact that they stop the contract so soon without previous warning (unless Librapay is not disclosing everything) is what make it really weird for me. That is completely normal (in fact giving notice is pretty lenient), if a financial institution suspects you of money laundering weird things will begin to happen to you such as freezes, orders being ignored, surprise account closures, etc. You will under no circumstances receive an explanation as that in itself is a serious criminal offense because it is considered to be helpful to money launderers when you explain to them what they did that aroused suspicion. Note to readers: if weird things start happening to your bank account (delayed or ignored payments, logouts, etc) get on the phone to the bank and be as helpful to them as you can be. That is typically the only way to get this resolved.
    - lixtra 8y ago
      With apparently 13 k€ per month processed, how much could they launder? No harm would have been done by giving them a few months grace period.
      - espadrine 8y ago
        The amount is irrelevant. Financing Nazis is illegal, especially in France, which had a bit of an economic setback about sixty years ago because of them. Oh, and a lot of death and suffering. https://github.com/liberapay/liberapay.org/issues/11 https://github.com/liberapay/liberapay.org/issues/11
        icebraining 8y ago
        That thread is not about money laundering, and it's two years old.
    - cannonedhamster 8y ago
      So basically if you're literally money laundering for cartels like HSBC, it's cool you've got plenty of time, but if you're a bit player for charity you should be blocked? Doesn't sound legit to me.
- calpaterson 8y ago
  > Likelier: Liberapay’s KYC was insufficient. Indeed and that would be consistent with no explanation being offered as explaining is normally illegal under "tipping off" rules.
- wut42 8y ago
  >Likelier: Liberapay’s KYC was insufficient. No. They mirror one-on-one Mangopay's: https://docs.mangopay.com/guide/kyc https://docs.mangopay.com/guide/kyc https://liberapay.com/about/faq#maximum-amount https://liberapay.com/about/faq#maximum-amount
wut42 8y ago
From the discussions in https://github.com/liberapay/salon/issues/248 https://github.com/liberapay/salon/issues/248 it seems to be related to controversial users. >I have just received an email from mangopay saying that they want to terminate their contract with us because we have/had a few controversial users. >I've replied, asking for confirmation, and information on how much time we have left.
fwdpropaganda 8y ago
Currently using bitcoin for payments changes nothing. Yes, the transfer of "currency" are decentralized, but to cash it out (to pay for food, rent, etc) you still need to use exchanges which are centralized.
- _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
  If you need to 'cash out' it's not a 'currency'.
  - fwdpropaganda 8y ago
    A) Regardless of whether you're right or wrong, that's just a discussion about labels. Call it whatever you want, my point still stands: the transfers are decentralized but the exchanges are centralized. B) Even though my point does not depend on whether you're right or wrong, you're wrong. I have USD in my bank but I have to cash them out into GBP. So according to your "reasoning", USD is not a currency? Of course it is, you're just talking nonsense.
    - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
      The money in your bank account is no currency. Either a currency is something you can buy things with, or it's a label with exchange rates. In the first case it can't be something that needs to be cashed out. In the second case you can't buy something and the thing you buy other things with is money. You're usage of Bitcoin, money, GDP, USD and currency is willynilly.
      - fwdpropaganda 8y ago
        You have added zero to this conversation.
        _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
        Does personally attack people get you somewhere in real live, I wonder?

I guess their payment processor got sick of handling thousand of tiny payment and gave them a random excuse to boot them out asap.

by maeln 8y ago

I guess their payment processor got sick of handling thousand of tiny payment and gave them a random excuse to boot them out asap.

espadrine 8y ago

> Mangopay hasn’t provided a detailed explanation of their decision, so we’re not sure. We’ve tried to understand their concerns, they seemed related to the fact that Liberapay is open to everyone Likelier: Liberapay’s KYC was insufficient. Mangopay probably received a call from the regulator, and they realized that they could not ensure that Liberapay was not (unwittingly) letting people launder money or finance terrorism. The AML/CFT requirements that would have needed to be applied by Liberapay to all its users would probably have caused such friction that they would have grown much slower, however.

maeln 8y ago
It is also a strong possibility but wouldn't Mangopay would have given some time for Librapay to adapt to the regulation ? The fact that they stop the contract so soon without previous warning (unless Librapay is not disclosing everything) is what make it really weird for me.
- calpaterson 8y ago
  > It is also a strong possibility but wouldn't Mangopay would have given some time for Librapay to adapt to the regulation ? No anti-money laundering law doesn't work that way > The fact that they stop the contract so soon without previous warning (unless Librapay is not disclosing everything) is what make it really weird for me. That is completely normal (in fact giving notice is pretty lenient), if a financial institution suspects you of money laundering weird things will begin to happen to you such as freezes, orders being ignored, surprise account closures, etc. You will under no circumstances receive an explanation as that in itself is a serious criminal offense because it is considered to be helpful to money launderers when you explain to them what they did that aroused suspicion. Note to readers: if weird things start happening to your bank account (delayed or ignored payments, logouts, etc) get on the phone to the bank and be as helpful to them as you can be. That is typically the only way to get this resolved.
  - lixtra 8y ago
    With apparently 13 k€ per month processed, how much could they launder? No harm would have been done by giving them a few months grace period.
    - espadrine 8y ago
      The amount is irrelevant. Financing Nazis is illegal, especially in France, which had a bit of an economic setback about sixty years ago because of them. Oh, and a lot of death and suffering. https://github.com/liberapay/liberapay.org/issues/11 https://github.com/liberapay/liberapay.org/issues/11
      - icebraining 8y ago
        That thread is not about money laundering, and it's two years old.
  - cannonedhamster 8y ago
    So basically if you're literally money laundering for cartels like HSBC, it's cool you've got plenty of time, but if you're a bit player for charity you should be blocked? Doesn't sound legit to me.
calpaterson 8y ago
> Likelier: Liberapay’s KYC was insufficient. Indeed and that would be consistent with no explanation being offered as explaining is normally illegal under "tipping off" rules.
wut42 8y ago
>Likelier: Liberapay’s KYC was insufficient. No. They mirror one-on-one Mangopay's: https://docs.mangopay.com/guide/kyc https://docs.mangopay.com/guide/kyc https://liberapay.com/about/faq#maximum-amount https://liberapay.com/about/faq#maximum-amount

wut42 8y ago

From the discussions in https://github.com/liberapay/salon/issues/248 https://github.com/liberapay/salon/issues/248 it seems to be related to controversial users. >I have just received an email from mangopay saying that they want to terminate their contract with us because we have/had a few controversial users. >I've replied, asking for confirmation, and information on how much time we have left.

fwdpropaganda 8y ago

Currently using bitcoin for payments changes nothing. Yes, the transfer of "currency" are decentralized, but to cash it out (to pay for food, rent, etc) you still need to use exchanges which are centralized.

_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
If you need to 'cash out' it's not a 'currency'.
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago
  A) Regardless of whether you're right or wrong, that's just a discussion about labels. Call it whatever you want, my point still stands: the transfers are decentralized but the exchanges are centralized. B) Even though my point does not depend on whether you're right or wrong, you're wrong. I have USD in my bank but I have to cash them out into GBP. So according to your "reasoning", USD is not a currency? Of course it is, you're just talking nonsense.
  - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
    The money in your bank account is no currency. Either a currency is something you can buy things with, or it's a label with exchange rates. In the first case it can't be something that needs to be cashed out. In the second case you can't buy something and the thing you buy other things with is money. You're usage of Bitcoin, money, GDP, USD and currency is willynilly.
    - fwdpropaganda 8y ago
      You have added zero to this conversation.
      - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
        Does personally attack people get you somewhere in real live, I wonder?