6 ms·

Florida man jailed for failing to unlock his phone

42 points by tehwebguy 8y ago

byoung2 8y ago
Has anyone tried a screen lock data wipe app? Put in the special pin or pattern on the lock screen and it deletes sensitive files. You can easily restore from the cloud later.
- salawat 8y ago
  Congratulations. You just willfully destroyed evidence pertaining to an investigation. Enjoy your obstruction of justice charges. Also enjoy the spoliation inference the prosecutor can now use against you.
  - agentdax5 8y ago
    How could they prove intent? Fudge the code twice then the third time wipe it and play dumb.
    - salawat 8y ago
      The court need only point to the fact you downloaded an app specifically meant to wipe your phone via an "oh crap" code. I mean, I get LE and the justice system is given a lot of crap for being behind the times, but cmon now. This is slam dunk tier legal argumentation here. I'm not even a lawyer and I'm pretty sure I could convince a judge on that point. If they issue a warrant for something, and you do something to what the warrant was issued for, you tampered with evidence. This is heavily frowned upon. Especially in the middle of a court room, right in front of a judge. If you want to send a message via civil disobedience, all power to you.Just understand, you're still going to have to deal with the consequences. I don't like it any more hand anyone else here, bit until you can sell a legislature on changing a bunch of this, in court is the absolute LAST place you want to make a stand on it. Judges are going to go with the least amount of reinterpretation to keep the system and Law Enforcement trucking. Law is made by legislatures. It's just the way it is.
      - draw_down 8y ago
        Yeah. It's funny that hackers (in the old sense) think they can just route around law with an app, or some code or whatever. Doesn't work that way.
      - c4h8o3del 8y ago
        > the fact you downloaded an app specifically meant to wipe your phone via an "oh crap" code. Are we now assuming PKI is fundamentally broken or that one were dumb enough to download an apk from a plain http site? I'm not going to address the rest of the comment as I don't feel like it, but they'd have to know in the first place.
  - byoung2 8y ago
    In all the cases I've seen so far, people are being targeted for searches even before the investigation has begun. Traffic stop...let me search your phone. There would be an easy defense for wiping your phone if you are not even under investigation yet. In fact it is so easy to restore your phone why not just wipe it before the cop approaches.
- SmallDeadGuy 8y ago
  A better solution, maybe doable on jailbroken/rooted phones, would be to have one pin unlock into normal mode and one pin to unlock into a mode with all sensitive information hidden but looks like the normal mode. Again, I wouldn't advise actually doing this, but I like theorising.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Japanese handis had that feature. Guys, especially, used them for their secret affairs and other things they wanted to keep under wraps.
    - splintercell 8y ago
      What's 'Japanese handis'? Googled it but couldn't find anything on it.
      - mc32 8y ago
        Sorry short for personal handy phone system or PHS, also known locally as keitai[1] [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_mobile_phone_culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_mobile_phone_cultur...
      - pasbesoin 8y ago
        In Germany, a mobile phone is called a "handy" (or, Handy, as it's a noun). I'm extrapolating that that term (beyond a German context, or maybe the commenter is German) is being used, here.
      - mc32 8y ago
        To get to the point, I think it was the systems that had a "2 in 1" with two PINs and you could unlock your "second phone" with the second pin and then make and receive calls from this hidden second number. Burner numbers I guess have replaced that need though.
- Retra 8y ago
  How about don't put evidence on your phone in the first place?
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    OpSec protip: properly destroy burner phones - don't just toss them under the car seat.
  - 13years 8y ago
    Evidence can be constructed from lots of other metadata. Your phone doesn't need to have a saved message "I did it"
    - Retra 8y ago
      That certainly doesn't invalidate anything I said.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  Standard procedure often involves imaging the phone/drive to mitigate stunts like this, so all you would be doing is proving your intent to destroy evidence. You'll be really fucked if they catch on and have their copy decrypted independently because the results will differ. The Android vs iPhone security debates always amuse me. Phone security altogether is a joke. Even podunk LE departments have contracts with Cellebrite...
  - byoung2 8y ago
    It depends on the sequence of events. If you are already arrested and charged with a crime, and a warrant is issued, it's too late to wipe. But if the cops have you pulled over on the roadside and demand you unlock your phone, you should be able to wipe with impunity.
Sarki 8y ago
"Florida man"... Has Gizmodo changed into the Onion or Reddit now?
- dajohnson89 8y ago
  Does anyone remember Fark? :-)
  - tehwebguy 8y ago
    I still check it daily!
- jstarfish 8y ago
  Florida's Sunshine Law gives us a lot of insight into its criminal justice proceedings that most other states do not share, so we see a disproportionate amount of news attributable to nondescript "Florida Man."
tehlike 8y ago
At least phones do not enforce a password with special requirements
diafygi 8y ago
If he says he doesn't remember his passcode, won't six months in jail pretty much guarantee that he will never remember it? I forget my passwords all the time if I don't use them frequently. It's like muscle memory, so even after two weeks of vacation I struggle to remember them. Six months of not using it in a high stress environment would definitely cause me to forget it.
dev_dull 8y ago
> The police got a search warrant for the devices, claiming that they contain evidence of “Possession of Cannabis Less Than 20 grams” and “Possession of Drug Paraphernalia”—both of which Montanez already admitted to, which makes it unclear why the cops still want to search the phone to prove the charges. This really doesn’t pass the smell test. I’m glad to this case moving forward.
grawprog 8y ago
I may just be ignorant of the way the law works but a search warrant would give the police the right to search the phone but why does this mean he has to turn over the password? After doing a bit of research I found this which would seem to apply > the government could not compel Spencer to state the password itself, whether orally or in writing. [FN1: See Doe v. United States, 487 U.S. 201, 210 n.9 (1988) (stating in dicta that compelling someone to reveal the combination to his wall safe is testimonial for purposes of the Fifth Amendment); It seems like a previous case set precedent that a password cannot be compelled to be revealed either orally or in writing. I'm not American so i may be wrong but it seems like he should not be going to jail...
wpdev_63 8y ago
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3da793/fbi-arrests-nsa-contractor-on-suspicion-of-leaking-hacking-tools https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3da793/fbi-arrest... https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/7xdxg9/fbi-hacking-investigations-classified-remote-operations-unit https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/7xdxg9/fbi-hackin... https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/?#EXAMPLES https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/?#EXAMPLES You do not have the right to privacy on your phone. If you would like to make a difference, please visit http://www.decidethefuture.org/ http://www.decidethefuture.org/ and see what your local representative is doing.

42 points by tehwebguy 8y ago

Has anyone tried a screen lock data wipe app? Put in the special pin or pattern on the lock screen and it deletes sensitive files. You can easily restore from the cloud later.

salawat 8y ago
Congratulations. You just willfully destroyed evidence pertaining to an investigation. Enjoy your obstruction of justice charges. Also enjoy the spoliation inference the prosecutor can now use against you.
- agentdax5 8y ago
  How could they prove intent? Fudge the code twice then the third time wipe it and play dumb.
  - salawat 8y ago
    The court need only point to the fact you downloaded an app specifically meant to wipe your phone via an "oh crap" code. I mean, I get LE and the justice system is given a lot of crap for being behind the times, but cmon now. This is slam dunk tier legal argumentation here. I'm not even a lawyer and I'm pretty sure I could convince a judge on that point. If they issue a warrant for something, and you do something to what the warrant was issued for, you tampered with evidence. This is heavily frowned upon. Especially in the middle of a court room, right in front of a judge. If you want to send a message via civil disobedience, all power to you.Just understand, you're still going to have to deal with the consequences. I don't like it any more hand anyone else here, bit until you can sell a legislature on changing a bunch of this, in court is the absolute LAST place you want to make a stand on it. Judges are going to go with the least amount of reinterpretation to keep the system and Law Enforcement trucking. Law is made by legislatures. It's just the way it is.
    - draw_down 8y ago
      Yeah. It's funny that hackers (in the old sense) think they can just route around law with an app, or some code or whatever. Doesn't work that way.
    - c4h8o3del 8y ago
      > the fact you downloaded an app specifically meant to wipe your phone via an "oh crap" code. Are we now assuming PKI is fundamentally broken or that one were dumb enough to download an apk from a plain http site? I'm not going to address the rest of the comment as I don't feel like it, but they'd have to know in the first place.
- byoung2 8y ago
  In all the cases I've seen so far, people are being targeted for searches even before the investigation has begun. Traffic stop...let me search your phone. There would be an easy defense for wiping your phone if you are not even under investigation yet. In fact it is so easy to restore your phone why not just wipe it before the cop approaches.
SmallDeadGuy 8y ago
A better solution, maybe doable on jailbroken/rooted phones, would be to have one pin unlock into normal mode and one pin to unlock into a mode with all sensitive information hidden but looks like the normal mode. Again, I wouldn't advise actually doing this, but I like theorising.
- mc32 8y ago
  Japanese handis had that feature. Guys, especially, used them for their secret affairs and other things they wanted to keep under wraps.
  - splintercell 8y ago
    What's 'Japanese handis'? Googled it but couldn't find anything on it.
    - mc32 8y ago
      Sorry short for personal handy phone system or PHS, also known locally as keitai[1] [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_mobile_phone_culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_mobile_phone_cultur...
    - pasbesoin 8y ago
      In Germany, a mobile phone is called a "handy" (or, Handy, as it's a noun). I'm extrapolating that that term (beyond a German context, or maybe the commenter is German) is being used, here.
    - mc32 8y ago
      To get to the point, I think it was the systems that had a "2 in 1" with two PINs and you could unlock your "second phone" with the second pin and then make and receive calls from this hidden second number. Burner numbers I guess have replaced that need though.
Retra 8y ago
How about don't put evidence on your phone in the first place?
- stephengillie 8y ago
  OpSec protip: properly destroy burner phones - don't just toss them under the car seat.
- 13years 8y ago
  Evidence can be constructed from lots of other metadata. Your phone doesn't need to have a saved message "I did it"
  - Retra 8y ago
    That certainly doesn't invalidate anything I said.
jstarfish 8y ago
Standard procedure often involves imaging the phone/drive to mitigate stunts like this, so all you would be doing is proving your intent to destroy evidence. You'll be really fucked if they catch on and have their copy decrypted independently because the results will differ. The Android vs iPhone security debates always amuse me. Phone security altogether is a joke. Even podunk LE departments have contracts with Cellebrite...
- byoung2 8y ago
  It depends on the sequence of events. If you are already arrested and charged with a crime, and a warrant is issued, it's too late to wipe. But if the cops have you pulled over on the roadside and demand you unlock your phone, you should be able to wipe with impunity.

Sarki 8y ago

"Florida man"... Has Gizmodo changed into the Onion or Reddit now?

dajohnson89 8y ago
Does anyone remember Fark? :-)
- tehwebguy 8y ago
  I still check it daily!
jstarfish 8y ago
Florida's Sunshine Law gives us a lot of insight into its criminal justice proceedings that most other states do not share, so we see a disproportionate amount of news attributable to nondescript "Florida Man."

tehlike 8y ago

At least phones do not enforce a password with special requirements

diafygi 8y ago

If he says he doesn't remember his passcode, won't six months in jail pretty much guarantee that he will never remember it? I forget my passwords all the time if I don't use them frequently. It's like muscle memory, so even after two weeks of vacation I struggle to remember them. Six months of not using it in a high stress environment would definitely cause me to forget it.

dev_dull 8y ago

> The police got a search warrant for the devices, claiming that they contain evidence of “Possession of Cannabis Less Than 20 grams” and “Possession of Drug Paraphernalia”—both of which Montanez already admitted to, which makes it unclear why the cops still want to search the phone to prove the charges. This really doesn’t pass the smell test. I’m glad to this case moving forward.

grawprog 8y ago

I may just be ignorant of the way the law works but a search warrant would give the police the right to search the phone but why does this mean he has to turn over the password? After doing a bit of research I found this which would seem to apply > the government could not compel Spencer to state the password itself, whether orally or in writing. [FN1: See Doe v. United States, 487 U.S. 201, 210 n.9 (1988) (stating in dicta that compelling someone to reveal the combination to his wall safe is testimonial for purposes of the Fifth Amendment); It seems like a previous case set precedent that a password cannot be compelled to be revealed either orally or in writing. I'm not American so i may be wrong but it seems like he should not be going to jail...

wpdev_63 8y ago

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3da793/fbi-arrests-nsa-contractor-on-suspicion-of-leaking-hacking-tools https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3da793/fbi-arrest... https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/7xdxg9/fbi-hacking-investigations-classified-remote-operations-unit https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/7xdxg9/fbi-hackin... https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/?#EXAMPLES https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/?#EXAMPLES You do not have the right to privacy on your phone. If you would like to make a difference, please visit http://www.decidethefuture.org/ http://www.decidethefuture.org/ and see what your local representative is doing.