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It seems pretty obvious that what we know about is the barest sliver of what was actually going on tens of thousands of years ago. If nothing else, look at his

It seems pretty obvious that what we know about is the barest sliver of what was actually going on tens of thousands of years ago. If nothing else, look at historical sea levels through the fluctuations caused by the ice ages. Vast areas that are currently at the bottom of the oceans were dry land, most famously the Bering land bridge and Doggerland, but huge, huge areas all over the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland https://www.deviantart.com/atlas-v7x/art/Coastlines-of-the-Ice-Age-685023258 https://www.deviantart.com/atlas-v7x/art/Coastlines-of-the-I... Even in recorded history, terrain is much more malleable than you might expect - rivers changing their course, sometimes wildly, is not especially uncommon. For instance, it is well attested that the Yellow River has changed course such that it has reached the sea both north and south of Shandong in various eras. http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20090526-history-Yellow-River%20Nolls.jpg http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20090526-history-Yellow-R...

snapdangle 8y ago
"It seems pretty obvious that what we know about is the barest sliver of what was actually going on tens of thousands of years ago." It doesn't seem to be obvious to most highly educated people I know. From their perspective, the history of humanity might as well be only 5,000 years old, they rarely open up to any kind of interest in the fact that ancient civilizations from 3K-5K BC considered _their own civilizations_ to be degraded forms of much earlier civilizations. It is also completely off the boards to discuss the potential of rapid techtonic shifts periodically erasing human societies. There are quite a few underwater cities in ruins, and of course myths and legends of even larger ones. But they don't get much play. Importantly, cultures with oral traditions are much more capable of recording accurately details from 10,000+ years ago: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/australian-stories-capture-10000-year-old-climate-history-180954030/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/australian-stories...
- selestify 8y ago
  > ancient civilizations from 3K-5K BC considered _their own civilizations_ to be degraded forms of much earlier civilizations That is fascinating. Which civilizations were these, and where can I read about them? Did they think that because there were civilizational collapses earlier in human history?
  - snapdangle 8y ago
    There is an ancient stone list of Sumerian rulers that extends into 'antediluvian' rulers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List#Antediluvian_rulers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List#Antediluvia... Egypt recorded similar. Dan Carlin references A.T. Olmstead in describing how the ancient world believed had eras of its own antiquities. It begins by referencing an event in 500 BCE but then proceeds to move further back in time. It's in the first King of Kings episode, with context starting at around 32:00 and the quote starting somewhere after 33:30. (Here's a direct link to the mp3: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/6/4/b64b6fbb6092322d/dchha56_Kings_of_Kings.mp3 http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/6/4/b64b6fbb6092322d/dchha56_Kin...) Now, this same list says that these individual rulers lived for thousands of years. Obviously that is something of a red flag in terms of applying this list literally. To me, though, it raises a lot of questions. In conversation, however, it usually goes nowhere.
  - snapdangle 8y ago
    The 3K-5K is extrapolated based on the time spans of the claimed length of these civilizations but I should clarify that most of the writing about how the ancient world viewed itself comes from after 2K and especially after 1K. The "biblical" (bad word for it, considering how ubiquitous it is as a legend world wide) flood fixtures prominently as a moment of civilizational collapse. The tricky part is how to interpret the multi-thousand year "reigns" of the "gods" that supposedly came before that.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  >There are quite a few underwater cities in ruins, and of course myths and legends of even larger ones. But they don't get much play. Indeed, the tsunami back in what 2005 revealed ancient ruins out underwater, carved animals and a temple when the water receded. An entire city, right there in front of their noses, only revealed when a massive tsunami caused the water to recede temporarily. Then look at how entire islands effectively have all traces of humans scrubbed from them when hurricanes go over, or islands that disappear outright from rising sea levels like these 5 https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/world/pacific-solomon-islands-disappear/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/world/pacific-solomon-islands... as well as Sandy Island https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sandy_Island,_New_Caledonia https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sandy_Island,_New_Caledonia

snapdangle 8y ago

"It seems pretty obvious that what we know about is the barest sliver of what was actually going on tens of thousands of years ago." It doesn't seem to be obvious to most highly educated people I know. From their perspective, the history of humanity might as well be only 5,000 years old, they rarely open up to any kind of interest in the fact that ancient civilizations from 3K-5K BC considered _their own civilizations_ to be degraded forms of much earlier civilizations. It is also completely off the boards to discuss the potential of rapid techtonic shifts periodically erasing human societies. There are quite a few underwater cities in ruins, and of course myths and legends of even larger ones. But they don't get much play. Importantly, cultures with oral traditions are much more capable of recording accurately details from 10,000+ years ago: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/australian-stories-capture-10000-year-old-climate-history-180954030/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/australian-stories...

selestify 8y ago
> ancient civilizations from 3K-5K BC considered _their own civilizations_ to be degraded forms of much earlier civilizations That is fascinating. Which civilizations were these, and where can I read about them? Did they think that because there were civilizational collapses earlier in human history?
- snapdangle 8y ago
  There is an ancient stone list of Sumerian rulers that extends into 'antediluvian' rulers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List#Antediluvian_rulers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List#Antediluvia... Egypt recorded similar. Dan Carlin references A.T. Olmstead in describing how the ancient world believed had eras of its own antiquities. It begins by referencing an event in 500 BCE but then proceeds to move further back in time. It's in the first King of Kings episode, with context starting at around 32:00 and the quote starting somewhere after 33:30. (Here's a direct link to the mp3: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/6/4/b64b6fbb6092322d/dchha56_Kings_of_Kings.mp3 http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/6/4/b64b6fbb6092322d/dchha56_Kin...) Now, this same list says that these individual rulers lived for thousands of years. Obviously that is something of a red flag in terms of applying this list literally. To me, though, it raises a lot of questions. In conversation, however, it usually goes nowhere.
- snapdangle 8y ago
  The 3K-5K is extrapolated based on the time spans of the claimed length of these civilizations but I should clarify that most of the writing about how the ancient world viewed itself comes from after 2K and especially after 1K. The "biblical" (bad word for it, considering how ubiquitous it is as a legend world wide) flood fixtures prominently as a moment of civilizational collapse. The tricky part is how to interpret the multi-thousand year "reigns" of the "gods" that supposedly came before that.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>There are quite a few underwater cities in ruins, and of course myths and legends of even larger ones. But they don't get much play. Indeed, the tsunami back in what 2005 revealed ancient ruins out underwater, carved animals and a temple when the water receded. An entire city, right there in front of their noses, only revealed when a massive tsunami caused the water to recede temporarily. Then look at how entire islands effectively have all traces of humans scrubbed from them when hurricanes go over, or islands that disappear outright from rising sea levels like these 5 https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/world/pacific-solomon-islands-disappear/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/world/pacific-solomon-islands... as well as Sandy Island https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sandy_Island,_New_Caledonia https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sandy_Island,_New_Caledonia