5 ms·

Always scared about fermenting things like this. How do I know it has the right culture in it and I won't die?

by shannongreen 8y ago

microcolonel 8y ago
Microscope or roll the dice.
NickBusey 8y ago
I'm curious what culture you are worried about that would both ferment the food, and also kill you.
mirimir 8y ago
The experience seems to be that organisms which tolerate high salt won't kill you.[0] Ditto for low pH.[1] And the bacteria in high-salt fermenting produce lactic acid. 0) https://foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/pdf_Files/Fermented_Vegetables.pdf https://foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/pdf_Files/Fermented_Veget... 1) https://www.healthycanning.com/acidity-low-ph-is-what-makes-water-bath-canning-safe/ https://www.healthycanning.com/acidity-low-ph-is-what-makes-...
toomanybeersies 8y ago
You just have to trust that we've been doing it for thousands of years without killing ourselves. As long as you've got plenty of salt and a low pH, you'll be fine. I've made all sorts of fermented foods over the years, pickles, beer, spirits, bread, etc. Haven't gotten sick yet.
maxk42 8y ago
It's really hard to get wrong. The salt kills most of the bad things and the capsaicin and garlic have potent anti-fungal properties which make it especially difficult to mess up. If you remember to turn your ferment once a day or so it'll go very well. (By turn I mean physically mixing the material at the top of the jar down into the depths of the jar and dredging up the stuff at the bottom for a while to sit at the top. This keeps "scum" from forming, but the scum won't kill you and can be safely scraped away without spoiling the batch if it does form.)
- maxk42 8y ago
  You could also look at it this way: This technology is thousands of years old and predates refrigeration and most basic sanitation. It's that easy.
  - zandl 8y ago
    The pH test reads 6 however, which is out of the safe range afaik.
    - cr1895 8y ago
      If you look at the color of the top block, it's matching somewhere between 3 and 4. Botulism is avoided if the pH is under 4.6. The test strip is sitting on 6 but it would have to be darker to have that high a pH.
      - mrcms 8y ago
        This is the correct reading. I had it at 3-4 as well. The camera also saturates the colors a bit.
    - mrcms 8y ago
      It does not. I the camera distorts the colors a bit, but when I made the reading, I had it at somewhere between 3-4. This was also confirmed by simply tasting the brine. It is very acidic.
cr1895 8y ago
I'd recommend watching the series "It's Alive" from Bon Appetit. There's an episode on fermented hot sauce.
- mrcms 8y ago
  +1 I linked it already in the README
theptip 8y ago
In general if it tastes OK and doesn't have visible growths (e.g. fuzz, green or white patches) then it's fine. A lactic acid fermentation will actually kill most pathogens, so it's surprisingly safe. The yeast and other lactic acid bacteria are coating (and usually inside) the produce, so you don't need to worry a lot about "the right culture". (If you want to be sure, you can collect a starter culture, but that's quite advanced.) Source: I make beer. More authoritative source: http://houston.afdo.org/uploads/1/5/9/4/15948626/1000_jay-neal-potential-hazards-with-fermented-foods.pdf http://houston.afdo.org/uploads/1/5/9/4/15948626/1000_jay-ne...

Always scared about fermenting things like this. How do I know it has the right culture in it and I won't die?

microcolonel 8y ago

Microscope or roll the dice.

NickBusey 8y ago

I'm curious what culture you are worried about that would both ferment the food, and also kill you.

mirimir 8y ago

The experience seems to be that organisms which tolerate high salt won't kill you.[0] Ditto for low pH.[1] And the bacteria in high-salt fermenting produce lactic acid. 0) https://foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/pdf_Files/Fermented_Vegetables.pdf https://foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/pdf_Files/Fermented_Veget... 1) https://www.healthycanning.com/acidity-low-ph-is-what-makes-water-bath-canning-safe/ https://www.healthycanning.com/acidity-low-ph-is-what-makes-...

toomanybeersies 8y ago

You just have to trust that we've been doing it for thousands of years without killing ourselves. As long as you've got plenty of salt and a low pH, you'll be fine. I've made all sorts of fermented foods over the years, pickles, beer, spirits, bread, etc. Haven't gotten sick yet.

maxk42 8y ago

It's really hard to get wrong. The salt kills most of the bad things and the capsaicin and garlic have potent anti-fungal properties which make it especially difficult to mess up. If you remember to turn your ferment once a day or so it'll go very well. (By turn I mean physically mixing the material at the top of the jar down into the depths of the jar and dredging up the stuff at the bottom for a while to sit at the top. This keeps "scum" from forming, but the scum won't kill you and can be safely scraped away without spoiling the batch if it does form.)

maxk42 8y ago
You could also look at it this way: This technology is thousands of years old and predates refrigeration and most basic sanitation. It's that easy.
- zandl 8y ago
  The pH test reads 6 however, which is out of the safe range afaik.
  - cr1895 8y ago
    If you look at the color of the top block, it's matching somewhere between 3 and 4. Botulism is avoided if the pH is under 4.6. The test strip is sitting on 6 but it would have to be darker to have that high a pH.
    - mrcms 8y ago
      This is the correct reading. I had it at 3-4 as well. The camera also saturates the colors a bit.
  - mrcms 8y ago
    It does not. I the camera distorts the colors a bit, but when I made the reading, I had it at somewhere between 3-4. This was also confirmed by simply tasting the brine. It is very acidic.

cr1895 8y ago

I'd recommend watching the series "It's Alive" from Bon Appetit. There's an episode on fermented hot sauce.

mrcms 8y ago
+1 I linked it already in the README

theptip 8y ago

In general if it tastes OK and doesn't have visible growths (e.g. fuzz, green or white patches) then it's fine. A lactic acid fermentation will actually kill most pathogens, so it's surprisingly safe. The yeast and other lactic acid bacteria are coating (and usually inside) the produce, so you don't need to worry a lot about "the right culture". (If you want to be sure, you can collect a starter culture, but that's quite advanced.) Source: I make beer. More authoritative source: http://houston.afdo.org/uploads/1/5/9/4/15948626/1000_jay-neal-potential-hazards-with-fermented-foods.pdf http://houston.afdo.org/uploads/1/5/9/4/15948626/1000_jay-ne...