3 ms·

I think the point there is that an English speaker who learns a second language doesn't suffer the social stigma of a someone who learns English as a subsequent

I think the point there is that an English speaker who learns a second language doesn't suffer the social stigma of a someone who learns English as a subsequent language. (I have a pseudo-scientific theory that the Australian accent's more piercing qualities are a consequence of having to carry clearly through dense bush. But a more compelling explanation is that it's an accent of expedience that accelerated some of the phonetic changes in British English once a small and socially-mixed group of speakers split off from the main pack.)

ACow_Adonis 8y ago
Is that true though? I mean, there's the obvious point that if you're coming from the in-power group, its very hard to be "meaningfully stigmatised" by the out-power group no matter what. You will be identified, but if the other group has little power, no one from the in-power group really cares. And for better or worse in the majority of contexts, native english speakers are coming from in-power groups, and the context of them meeting with people with english as a second language is going to be usually in the context of dealing with low power groups and stereotypes. I, of course, recognise that happens, and that it will be a common occurence in east/west coast america. But take the "baka gaijin" phenomenon as a contrasting stereotype for example. I don't accept that english speakers learning a second language, outside of the context where the english speaker is just authoritatively in the positive-power relationship, suffers no social stigma or consequences when trying to learn a second language. See also connotations around gringo, bule, laowai, gweilo, etc. Given that WITHIN english and context there are disparate and conflicting connotations of having various accents, and that we (and others) can discern various ethnic and regional cross-language influences, i think its either a very localised-specific phenomenon (i.e. with the caveat as long as you're power dominant white english speaking person in the coastal US cities) or something that can't just generally be held to be true.

ACow_Adonis 8y ago

Is that true though? I mean, there's the obvious point that if you're coming from the in-power group, its very hard to be "meaningfully stigmatised" by the out-power group no matter what. You will be identified, but if the other group has little power, no one from the in-power group really cares. And for better or worse in the majority of contexts, native english speakers are coming from in-power groups, and the context of them meeting with people with english as a second language is going to be usually in the context of dealing with low power groups and stereotypes. I, of course, recognise that happens, and that it will be a common occurence in east/west coast america. But take the "baka gaijin" phenomenon as a contrasting stereotype for example. I don't accept that english speakers learning a second language, outside of the context where the english speaker is just authoritatively in the positive-power relationship, suffers no social stigma or consequences when trying to learn a second language. See also connotations around gringo, bule, laowai, gweilo, etc. Given that WITHIN english and context there are disparate and conflicting connotations of having various accents, and that we (and others) can discern various ethnic and regional cross-language influences, i think its either a very localised-specific phenomenon (i.e. with the caveat as long as you're power dominant white english speaking person in the coastal US cities) or something that can't just generally be held to be true.