5 ms·

What $35k model? https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-drops-35000-price-from-model-3-page-insists-plans-havent-changed/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018

What $35k model? https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-drops-35000-price-from-model-3-page-insists-plans-havent-changed/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/tesla-drops-35000-price... I’ll believe it’s a thing when it starts to ship, until then it’s PR for a car that’s much less affordable. Edit: the mass downvoting of any comment critical of Tesla/Musk, and flagging of any negative article is getting really old. It’s especially galling when people float conspiracy theories about an anti-Musk bent as a justification for this.

martythemaniak 8y ago
Have you considered the fact that you're getting downvoted because the negativity requires an increasingly conspirational mindset? What I'm saying is, what you you're seeing could be explained thus: "It takes a few months to spin up production of new trim levels. Like other companies, this company's years-long plans sometimes get delayed by several weeks or months. The company has spent a lot of capital on fixed costs and are focusing on being cashflow positive by prioritizing high-margin sales first" To make sense of Tesla's actions doesn't require your to believe anything out of the ordinary, nor even anything specific to Tesla. I might have just as easily described Intel shipping a chip. OTOH, the negative case is always shifting, there are always rumours, the books are cooked, the production numbers are bunk, the QC issues are underreported, etc etc. Until a few weeks ago, the line was that they couldn't make them in large numbers. Now that that's gone and forgotten, the current line is about the base model. When that ships, the line will shift to the Model Y or FSD.
- HeadsUpHigh 8y ago
  It's all until the shorts get busted. It will calm down a bit afterwards.
- DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
  What I’m saying is based on missed targets, a price point that has never materialized, and a total lack of personal investment in Musk or Tesla on a financial or emotional level. If Intel made as many claims and delivered so little I’d be skeptical of their ability to ever deliver as well. When I look at Tesla I see a company that can only make its stated targets when they work out of a tent with all hands on deck. That same company is saddled with debt and has never turned a profit. It’s hardly doomed, but there are clearly real problems to be overcome. Then I contrast that with the pie-eyed faith of the “Musk is saving the world for us,” fanboys and it makes me tired. The gulf between the reality of Tesla and the “negative case” as you call it isn’t that wide, while between the promise of changing energy forever blah blah blah is a lot of PR. The most likely cases are Tesla succeeding as a car company or failing as a car company and nothing more either way. I don’t care if Tesla fails or succeeds, and I don’t know whether failure or success lies ahead for it. I do increasingly see Musk as unstable and unpleasant, and his most rabid fans as unbearable though. I’m approaching console-wars and cryptocurrency levels of burnout with this topic and how online communities discuss it. I feel dread at another predictable and heavily flagged discussion every time Musk and Tesla is submitted, not excitement or intellectual stimulation.
  - tokipin 8y ago
    > Then I contrast that with the pie-eyed faith of the “Musk is saving the world for us,” fanboys and it makes me tired. There are things that the fanboys understand that critics don't. It will make more sense to everyone once people understand that the Model 3 is the iPhone of cars and the Gigafactory and other investments start paying for themselves. As far as the pro-Tesla and anti-Tesla arguments, I find the two sides talk past each other because the time frames being discussed are very different. Case in point, it's not that Tesla investors are covering their ears and saying "lalalala" about Tesla's missed deadlines. It's that they don't care. Based on the Model X delays, I didn't expect the Model 3 to even enter production until the end of this year. Besides the financial risk factor, I couldn't care less about the company missing its deadlines by a year. It simply does not matter. Repeat for many other topics.
    - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
      There are things that the fanboys understand that critics don't. It will make more sense to everyone once people understand that the Model 3 is the iPhone of cars and the Gigafactory and other investments start paying for themselves. If. IF. It could be the iPhone 1, or it could be a distant memory, or it could just be another car. It’s the certainty and sense of destiny that makes the fanboys so impossible to deal with, like cryptocurrency fanatics who can only talk about “fiat is dead,” lines. Putting aside the extreme positions, Tesla shows no signs beyond aspirations of being more than a car company. They don’t seem like they’re about to keel over, or conquer the world, they’re just making cars.
      - tokipin 8y ago
        > It could be the iPhone 1, or it could be a distant memory, or it could just be another car. I think your mistake is thinking that this is a roll of the die. Just because something is difficult to discuss doesn't mean there aren't people that understand it. And many pro-Tesla arguments are systemic, which also makes them difficult to convey (concepts like "game-theoretic equilibrium" are not in common lingo). Many pro-Tesla-ites will sound hype-y because they don't have a good way of explaining their conclusions, not because they don't have a clear understanding.
- threeseed 8y ago
  I think you're being pretty disingenuous though. The line was that they couldn't make the Model 3 in SUSTAINABLE numbers. Not some one week sprint where you took people from other lines and (allegedly) aggressively cut corners on quality. People have a right to be negative until Tesla can prove that they can build cars quickly, profitably, sustainably and with a reasonable level of quality.
cjensen 8y ago
The parent comment explicitly says the "$35K model coming later this year". Your comment would be more helpful if you provided a critique of why it is not coming rather than just asserting it in an overly-combative way.
HeadsUpHigh 8y ago
There's being cautious and there's being intentionally negative and hateful. It's all a matter of perspective.

martythemaniak 8y ago

Have you considered the fact that you're getting downvoted because the negativity requires an increasingly conspirational mindset? What I'm saying is, what you you're seeing could be explained thus: "It takes a few months to spin up production of new trim levels. Like other companies, this company's years-long plans sometimes get delayed by several weeks or months. The company has spent a lot of capital on fixed costs and are focusing on being cashflow positive by prioritizing high-margin sales first" To make sense of Tesla's actions doesn't require your to believe anything out of the ordinary, nor even anything specific to Tesla. I might have just as easily described Intel shipping a chip. OTOH, the negative case is always shifting, there are always rumours, the books are cooked, the production numbers are bunk, the QC issues are underreported, etc etc. Until a few weeks ago, the line was that they couldn't make them in large numbers. Now that that's gone and forgotten, the current line is about the base model. When that ships, the line will shift to the Model Y or FSD.

HeadsUpHigh 8y ago
It's all until the shorts get busted. It will calm down a bit afterwards.
DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
What I’m saying is based on missed targets, a price point that has never materialized, and a total lack of personal investment in Musk or Tesla on a financial or emotional level. If Intel made as many claims and delivered so little I’d be skeptical of their ability to ever deliver as well. When I look at Tesla I see a company that can only make its stated targets when they work out of a tent with all hands on deck. That same company is saddled with debt and has never turned a profit. It’s hardly doomed, but there are clearly real problems to be overcome. Then I contrast that with the pie-eyed faith of the “Musk is saving the world for us,” fanboys and it makes me tired. The gulf between the reality of Tesla and the “negative case” as you call it isn’t that wide, while between the promise of changing energy forever blah blah blah is a lot of PR. The most likely cases are Tesla succeeding as a car company or failing as a car company and nothing more either way. I don’t care if Tesla fails or succeeds, and I don’t know whether failure or success lies ahead for it. I do increasingly see Musk as unstable and unpleasant, and his most rabid fans as unbearable though. I’m approaching console-wars and cryptocurrency levels of burnout with this topic and how online communities discuss it. I feel dread at another predictable and heavily flagged discussion every time Musk and Tesla is submitted, not excitement or intellectual stimulation.
- tokipin 8y ago
  > Then I contrast that with the pie-eyed faith of the “Musk is saving the world for us,” fanboys and it makes me tired. There are things that the fanboys understand that critics don't. It will make more sense to everyone once people understand that the Model 3 is the iPhone of cars and the Gigafactory and other investments start paying for themselves. As far as the pro-Tesla and anti-Tesla arguments, I find the two sides talk past each other because the time frames being discussed are very different. Case in point, it's not that Tesla investors are covering their ears and saying "lalalala" about Tesla's missed deadlines. It's that they don't care. Based on the Model X delays, I didn't expect the Model 3 to even enter production until the end of this year. Besides the financial risk factor, I couldn't care less about the company missing its deadlines by a year. It simply does not matter. Repeat for many other topics.
  - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
    There are things that the fanboys understand that critics don't. It will make more sense to everyone once people understand that the Model 3 is the iPhone of cars and the Gigafactory and other investments start paying for themselves. If. IF. It could be the iPhone 1, or it could be a distant memory, or it could just be another car. It’s the certainty and sense of destiny that makes the fanboys so impossible to deal with, like cryptocurrency fanatics who can only talk about “fiat is dead,” lines. Putting aside the extreme positions, Tesla shows no signs beyond aspirations of being more than a car company. They don’t seem like they’re about to keel over, or conquer the world, they’re just making cars.
    - tokipin 8y ago
      > It could be the iPhone 1, or it could be a distant memory, or it could just be another car. I think your mistake is thinking that this is a roll of the die. Just because something is difficult to discuss doesn't mean there aren't people that understand it. And many pro-Tesla arguments are systemic, which also makes them difficult to convey (concepts like "game-theoretic equilibrium" are not in common lingo). Many pro-Tesla-ites will sound hype-y because they don't have a good way of explaining their conclusions, not because they don't have a clear understanding.
threeseed 8y ago
I think you're being pretty disingenuous though. The line was that they couldn't make the Model 3 in SUSTAINABLE numbers. Not some one week sprint where you took people from other lines and (allegedly) aggressively cut corners on quality. People have a right to be negative until Tesla can prove that they can build cars quickly, profitably, sustainably and with a reasonable level of quality.

cjensen 8y ago

The parent comment explicitly says the "$35K model coming later this year". Your comment would be more helpful if you provided a critique of why it is not coming rather than just asserting it in an overly-combative way.

HeadsUpHigh 8y ago

There's being cautious and there's being intentionally negative and hateful. It's all a matter of perspective.