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Ethereum is novel and ambitious technology. In my mind, and I think in the minds of most in the community, scaling had always been the big, important challenge

Ethereum is novel and ambitious technology. In my mind, and I think in the minds of most in the community, scaling had always been the big, important challenge on the horizon - but it builds confidence to see just how far the devs (and community) have brought it till now. It's like everything is in place for that final push over the mountain.

baby 8y ago
Another problem is the size of the blockchain
- pas 8y ago
  https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Sharding-roadmap https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Sharding-roadmap
mkirklions 8y ago
I think people are overtly positive about ETH because they missed out on BTC and believed in ETH. But dApps are unused. Customers are not paying 7x the price for decentralized verification. Centralized servers can be tampered with, but no one cares about your 4th of july pictures or saved games. Unless currency, voting, or a timestamp is involved, you dont use expensive verification methods. The sheer cost of blockchain makes it insane to imagine apps being built on it. Currency has typically required firepower to move money and different ways to verify money is real money. This is a real case for using blockchain.
- rhyzom 8y ago
  plenty of what you say is just not right (or plain wrong). btc = monetary/value transactions. i read the paper as early and 2008 and didn't miss out on it, i just didn't care then same as i don't care now. eth = dapps. just because dapps didn't take off immediately doesn't mean they aren't beginning to get used, increasingly so, and that there isn't a lot of valuable, useful, interesting and innovative applications being built and experimented with. btc and eth are two different things. if how much something can possibly enrich you is all you care about, that doesn't mean that everybody else is necessarily on that page. that being said, it's true - ethereum is basically useless for a lot of otherwise really interesting possible use cases and applications (which is why we got things like IOTA, something that i'm sure everybody here has nothing but hate towards, for whatever reasons). then ethereum classic, too, is something just as different. and i couldn't help but notice how most innovation is being done by people of russian or eastern european origin, or israelis, while the vast majority of silicon valley only chase the dollar bill and base their entire business models on how they can possibly screw the user. much as i sometimes find valuable threads here on hackernews, i don't really take much of what you people say seriously.
  - 1996 8y ago
    What do you find so interesting in Ethereum Classic? The userbase?
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      The dude has no clue. Listed 0 applications but said "Yeahh man its gonna happen" Sounds like the idiots on /r/cryptocurrency, doesnt sound like a programmer.
      - 1996 8y ago
        I see a growing interest in ETC, but I do not find any rational reason - except some people considering it could replace ETH in case the chains grows too big. But if shit hits the fan, ETH could decide to do something serious itself. I just don't understand it.
        rhyzom 8y ago
        well, it's under the umbrella of IOHK, they particularly emphasize security, take a slow, deliberate and conservative approach to how they do things, in addition to this: https://callisto.network/ https://callisto.network/ i don't find it all that surprising. i also don't see ETH and ETC as being in competition. and i hold both as well. :) i can see a scenario where some applications are housed by ETC and others by ETH. sky rocketing gas prices and transaction fees kinda defeat the purpose i'd say (for anybody other than speculators and miners), and given the network load sometimes, that would make a lot of sense until some working scalability solutions are in place.
    - rhyzom 8y ago
      didn't say i find anything all that interesting about Ethereum Classic. didn't jump in with the intention of promoting or defending a position either, but both responses following my post seem eager to shove things down my throat, not sure why. but if you want to know what i find interesting far as ethereum apps go, i can list those: Augur, MakerDAO, DAOStack. those are examples of efforts that regardless of what goes down would not have been in vain and have already made significant contributions to the better understanding of things in their respective domains. ETC, can't say so much about, they seem a little hush hush, but they recently did launch a complementary chain dedicated to smart contract security audits for both ETH and ETC (but paid for from their treasury), and i also think the proposed ERC-223 (by an ETC member) makes a lot of sense and personally hope that it does get approved to substitute the current ERC-20. overall, i just wouldn't disregard the efforts made. and i think i'm more or less keeping my tone civil, no? too much to ask for the same? (directed at the person below, that)
marknadal 8y ago
One thing to keep in mind is that most "scalable" apps (top 100 most popular websites like search, videos, social networking, forums, etc.) don't need double-spend resistant ledgers. They just need decentralized and cryptographically verified guarantees, like with what decentralized Reddit (notabug.io) and other apps, built on our system ( https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun ), that is already pushing terabytes traffic weekly in production. The future for scaling is more about working around double-spend/blockchain than trying to make double-spend/blockchain systems themselves to be scalable (trying to do that would require violating various CAP Theorem / physics rules).

baby 8y ago

Another problem is the size of the blockchain

pas 8y ago
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Sharding-roadmap https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Sharding-roadmap

mkirklions 8y ago

I think people are overtly positive about ETH because they missed out on BTC and believed in ETH. But dApps are unused. Customers are not paying 7x the price for decentralized verification. Centralized servers can be tampered with, but no one cares about your 4th of july pictures or saved games. Unless currency, voting, or a timestamp is involved, you dont use expensive verification methods. The sheer cost of blockchain makes it insane to imagine apps being built on it. Currency has typically required firepower to move money and different ways to verify money is real money. This is a real case for using blockchain.

rhyzom 8y ago
plenty of what you say is just not right (or plain wrong). btc = monetary/value transactions. i read the paper as early and 2008 and didn't miss out on it, i just didn't care then same as i don't care now. eth = dapps. just because dapps didn't take off immediately doesn't mean they aren't beginning to get used, increasingly so, and that there isn't a lot of valuable, useful, interesting and innovative applications being built and experimented with. btc and eth are two different things. if how much something can possibly enrich you is all you care about, that doesn't mean that everybody else is necessarily on that page. that being said, it's true - ethereum is basically useless for a lot of otherwise really interesting possible use cases and applications (which is why we got things like IOTA, something that i'm sure everybody here has nothing but hate towards, for whatever reasons). then ethereum classic, too, is something just as different. and i couldn't help but notice how most innovation is being done by people of russian or eastern european origin, or israelis, while the vast majority of silicon valley only chase the dollar bill and base their entire business models on how they can possibly screw the user. much as i sometimes find valuable threads here on hackernews, i don't really take much of what you people say seriously.
- 1996 8y ago
  What do you find so interesting in Ethereum Classic? The userbase?
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    The dude has no clue. Listed 0 applications but said "Yeahh man its gonna happen" Sounds like the idiots on /r/cryptocurrency, doesnt sound like a programmer.
    - 1996 8y ago
      I see a growing interest in ETC, but I do not find any rational reason - except some people considering it could replace ETH in case the chains grows too big. But if shit hits the fan, ETH could decide to do something serious itself. I just don't understand it.
      - rhyzom 8y ago
        well, it's under the umbrella of IOHK, they particularly emphasize security, take a slow, deliberate and conservative approach to how they do things, in addition to this: https://callisto.network/ https://callisto.network/ i don't find it all that surprising. i also don't see ETH and ETC as being in competition. and i hold both as well. :) i can see a scenario where some applications are housed by ETC and others by ETH. sky rocketing gas prices and transaction fees kinda defeat the purpose i'd say (for anybody other than speculators and miners), and given the network load sometimes, that would make a lot of sense until some working scalability solutions are in place.
  - rhyzom 8y ago
    didn't say i find anything all that interesting about Ethereum Classic. didn't jump in with the intention of promoting or defending a position either, but both responses following my post seem eager to shove things down my throat, not sure why. but if you want to know what i find interesting far as ethereum apps go, i can list those: Augur, MakerDAO, DAOStack. those are examples of efforts that regardless of what goes down would not have been in vain and have already made significant contributions to the better understanding of things in their respective domains. ETC, can't say so much about, they seem a little hush hush, but they recently did launch a complementary chain dedicated to smart contract security audits for both ETH and ETC (but paid for from their treasury), and i also think the proposed ERC-223 (by an ETC member) makes a lot of sense and personally hope that it does get approved to substitute the current ERC-20. overall, i just wouldn't disregard the efforts made. and i think i'm more or less keeping my tone civil, no? too much to ask for the same? (directed at the person below, that)

marknadal 8y ago

One thing to keep in mind is that most "scalable" apps (top 100 most popular websites like search, videos, social networking, forums, etc.) don't need double-spend resistant ledgers. They just need decentralized and cryptographically verified guarantees, like with what decentralized Reddit (notabug.io) and other apps, built on our system ( https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun ), that is already pushing terabytes traffic weekly in production. The future for scaling is more about working around double-spend/blockchain than trying to make double-spend/blockchain systems themselves to be scalable (trying to do that would require violating various CAP Theorem / physics rules).