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You're right, there's ways to detect it, though I don't think browsers today actually check the cert transparency log or CAA record when making requests. Withou

You're right, there's ways to detect it, though I don't think browsers today actually check the cert transparency log or CAA record when making requests. Without these two checks, valid certs created by a MITM tool using a CA's keys should pass without flagging any validation errors.

cesarb 8y ago
Even if most browsers don't check, it takes just one single person to expose the whole operation. This provides a strong incentive to use compromised cert vendors only for the most important operations, instead of indiscriminately against everyone: each use of a counterfeit certificate risks "burning" the whole cert vendor. And as you say, browsers today might not check these things (and checking CAA doesn't make much sense for a browser, it's intended to be checked by certificate issuers). But future browsers, browsers customized with some third-party extensions, or non-browsers might check.
Avamander 8y ago
With Expect-CT, sites can opt-in for browsers to report anything suspicious. Not sure how many browsers actually support that though.
- detaro 8y ago
  Currently only Chrome (and presumably other Chromium-based browsers?) does.
Ajedi32 8y ago
Chrome does check that all certs (at least [the ones issued after April 30][1]) are recorded in a Certificate Transparency log. Or rather, it checks that multiple logs have promised to include the certificate (via a signed certificate timestamp); the code that actually queries the CT monitors to verify that the certificate was included [isn't finished yet][2]. Browsers don't and can't check CAA records, because that's not how CAA is supposed to work. CAA is only enforced at the time of issuance. If you temporarily switch your CAA records to allow issuance for an hour, issue a cert, then switch them back to block all issuance from all CAs, the cert you issued remains valid. [1]: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/ct-policy/Qqr59r6yn1A/2t0bWblZBgAJ https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/ct-poli... [2]: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=506227 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=506227

cesarb 8y ago

Even if most browsers don't check, it takes just one single person to expose the whole operation. This provides a strong incentive to use compromised cert vendors only for the most important operations, instead of indiscriminately against everyone: each use of a counterfeit certificate risks "burning" the whole cert vendor. And as you say, browsers today might not check these things (and checking CAA doesn't make much sense for a browser, it's intended to be checked by certificate issuers). But future browsers, browsers customized with some third-party extensions, or non-browsers might check.

Avamander 8y ago

With Expect-CT, sites can opt-in for browsers to report anything suspicious. Not sure how many browsers actually support that though.

detaro 8y ago
Currently only Chrome (and presumably other Chromium-based browsers?) does.

Ajedi32 8y ago

Chrome does check that all certs (at least [the ones issued after April 30][1]) are recorded in a Certificate Transparency log. Or rather, it checks that multiple logs have promised to include the certificate (via a signed certificate timestamp); the code that actually queries the CT monitors to verify that the certificate was included [isn't finished yet][2]. Browsers don't and can't check CAA records, because that's not how CAA is supposed to work. CAA is only enforced at the time of issuance. If you temporarily switch your CAA records to allow issuance for an hour, issue a cert, then switch them back to block all issuance from all CAs, the cert you issued remains valid. [1]: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/ct-policy/Qqr59r6yn1A/2t0bWblZBgAJ https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/ct-poli... [2]: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=506227 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=506227