5 ms·

Here's the article before it was edited: https://web.archive.org/web/20180714180330/http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-glendale-detective-guilty-plea-2

Here's the article before it was edited: https://web.archive.org/web/20180714180330/http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-glendale-detective-guilty-plea-20180714-story.html https://web.archive.org/web/20180714180330/http://www.latime...

jessaustin 8y ago
John Saro Balian, 45, pleaded guilty to one count each of soliciting a bribe, obstruction of justice and making false statements to federal investigators as part of a plea agreement he reached with prosecutors. The document was ordered to be filed under seal but appeared on PACER, a public online database for court documents. I'd say that last part is the part that got LAT in trouble... I rarely support the whole "under seal" thing, especially when it's in order to protect a corrupt dirtbag cop, but this "ask for forgiveness not permission" stuff won't fly with many judges... But yeah, this guy is scum. Not only has he gleefully profited from both sides of the ruinous Drug War, but his police status has allowed him to escape the draconian punishments that normal people suffer.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > "ask for forgiveness not permission" stuff won't fly with many judges... According to the article, the courts have steadfastly protected this behavior for 90 years.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    The paragraph before that mentions that it is often appeals courts who have protected the behavior, as various trial "...Judges have issued similar orders before..." Incidentally, no one would wish to see the cop's family harmed, but it's not like this plea agreement came as a surprise to them, so they already had time to reorganize their lives for security. That makes the seal difficult to justify. Also, the risks they face are mostly due to the cop's actions.
    - forapurpose 8y ago
      > often appeals courts who have protected the behavior, as various trial "...Judges have issued similar orders before..." That omits every time a district judge has declined to issue such an order. In reference to the original post: > ask for forgiveness not permission News organizations don't ask permission of anyone before publishing, least of all courts. Finally, I'll add that if news organizations can publish the Pentagon Papers and Snowden's leaks, certainly they can publish an accidentally leaked plea agreement.
      - hedora 8y ago
        I’d add that they are the asking for forgiveness; prior court rulings clearly established that they have “permission”, since the information was not illegally obtained, and is of public interest. What if this crooked cop gets a job with even a modicum of authority in the future? Surely, insuring this incident shows up in background checks would help future potential employers.
- alexandercrohde 8y ago
  So, I imagine what's happening here is that this guy played both sides, and was caught and was being used as a mole by the US law enforcement. By releasing these charges publicly, the concern is that the cartel will now know he was disloyal and may attempt revenge. This is entirely speculative, but it seems much more probably than the judicial branch going out of its way to help the executive.
- garmaine 8y ago
  > especially when it's in order to protect a corrupt dirtbag cop It was an order to protect his family from retribution from violent psychopaths that have in the past murdered not just informants / plea deal recipients, but their entire family in the most bloody way imaginable. I would not be surprised if the headline in a few days is about his wife and children dying in ways unfit to print. And it would be irresponsible journalism of the LA Times that made it happen. I’m one of the most pro free speech person I know, but I’m squarely with the judge and the right to seal court proceedings here. And with a now gone age of journalism where this crap didn’t happen in the first place.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    Wow. Your circle of acquaintances must be strongly against freedom of speech, then. You cannot create the Memory Hole by court order. LA Times has a constitutional right to print anything they obtain legally. They are not directly placing anyone's lives at risk by publishing. If anything, they could publish another article about how slipshod security practices in the court system leak sensitive information to the public, and the court system tries to censor journalists rather than investigating and fixing their own problems. The easiest way to protect the corrupt cop's family would have been to crack down on police corruption, so that no cop could get so deeply involved with a violent criminal organization that their family would ever be at risk. If the gangs couldn't get corrupt cops to cover for them, they would find it much more difficult to murder families for retaliation and intimidation. Judging by Mexico's example, publishing may also put the journalists and their families at risk. This is definitely shooting the messenger. In a system where doing that is illegal. The judge is wrong, and should be reversed. Yesterday.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      The "easy" way for cops, cop families, and normal people to be protected is to end the disastrous Drug War. It wouldn't matter if all police were paragons of virtue, applying enforcement rather than treatment to a drug problem is a sure way to end up with multiplied problems.
- astura 8y ago
  >this "ask for forgiveness not permission" stuff won't fly with many judges... TFA makes it extremely clear that the First Amendment gives newspapers and others the right to publish information obtained from documents that end up available to public in error. All case law indicates that the LA Times waa acting fully within the boundaries of the law and did not need to "ask for forgiveness" or whatever. This ruling is extremely unusual and clearly unconstitutional. Heres is the full redacted part: >The document was ordered to be filed under seal but appeared on PACER, a public online database for court documents. >According to the agreement, filed in U.S. District Court, Balian agreed to cooperate with federal authorities by responding truthfully and completely in interviews and court proceedings. He is scheduled to be sentenced in September, when prosecutors are expected to recommend a reduced sentence. >The charges to which he pleaded guilty carry a maximum sentence of 35 years in prison.
- king_nothing 8y ago
  If the death penalty were ever plausibly-beneficial, this sort of low-life would deserve it.
promopacket 8y ago
And an archive.is link of that one, for good measure: https://archive.is/g8jV7 https://archive.is/g8jV7
- mirimir 8y ago
  Interesting. I just tried to do that, and got pointed to https://archive.is/g8jV7 https://archive.is/g8jV7 :) Smart site!
- astura 8y ago
  That's the redacted version.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    No, it's not. Or at least, it contains ... > John Saro Balian, 45, pleaded guilty to one count each of soliciting a bribe, obstruction of justice and making false statements to federal investigators as part of a plea agreement he reached with prosecutors. The document was ordered to be filed under seal but appeared on PACER, a public online database for court documents. > According to the agreement, filed in U.S. District Court, Balian agreed to cooperate with federal authorities by responding truthfully and completely in interviews and court proceedings. He is scheduled to be sentenced in September, when prosecutors are expected to recommend a reduced sentence. And it doesn't contain the "corrections" ... > 5:15 p.m.: This story has been updated to remove references from the filed plea agreement, which was ordered sealed by a judge but publicly available Friday on the federal court’s online document database. The changes were made to comply with an order issued Saturday by a U.S. federal judge. The Times plans to challenge the order. > 3:40 p.m.: This article was updated with a statement from the Glendale police chief. > This article was originally published at 10:55 a.m.
    - astura 8y ago
      Weird, that's not what it gave me when I clicked originally, I doubled checked. I see it now though.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wyldfire 8y ago
Oh wow! How long until the Internet Archive is added to the order?
- mirimir 8y ago
  That's why https://archive.is/g8jV7 https://archive.is/g8jV7 And if that goes too, I have a local copy :)

jessaustin 8y ago

John Saro Balian, 45, pleaded guilty to one count each of soliciting a bribe, obstruction of justice and making false statements to federal investigators as part of a plea agreement he reached with prosecutors. The document was ordered to be filed under seal but appeared on PACER, a public online database for court documents. I'd say that last part is the part that got LAT in trouble... I rarely support the whole "under seal" thing, especially when it's in order to protect a corrupt dirtbag cop, but this "ask for forgiveness not permission" stuff won't fly with many judges... But yeah, this guy is scum. Not only has he gleefully profited from both sides of the ruinous Drug War, but his police status has allowed him to escape the draconian punishments that normal people suffer.

forapurpose 8y ago
> "ask for forgiveness not permission" stuff won't fly with many judges... According to the article, the courts have steadfastly protected this behavior for 90 years.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  The paragraph before that mentions that it is often appeals courts who have protected the behavior, as various trial "...Judges have issued similar orders before..." Incidentally, no one would wish to see the cop's family harmed, but it's not like this plea agreement came as a surprise to them, so they already had time to reorganize their lives for security. That makes the seal difficult to justify. Also, the risks they face are mostly due to the cop's actions.
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    > often appeals courts who have protected the behavior, as various trial "...Judges have issued similar orders before..." That omits every time a district judge has declined to issue such an order. In reference to the original post: > ask for forgiveness not permission News organizations don't ask permission of anyone before publishing, least of all courts. Finally, I'll add that if news organizations can publish the Pentagon Papers and Snowden's leaks, certainly they can publish an accidentally leaked plea agreement.
    - hedora 8y ago
      I’d add that they are the asking for forgiveness; prior court rulings clearly established that they have “permission”, since the information was not illegally obtained, and is of public interest. What if this crooked cop gets a job with even a modicum of authority in the future? Surely, insuring this incident shows up in background checks would help future potential employers.
alexandercrohde 8y ago
So, I imagine what's happening here is that this guy played both sides, and was caught and was being used as a mole by the US law enforcement. By releasing these charges publicly, the concern is that the cartel will now know he was disloyal and may attempt revenge. This is entirely speculative, but it seems much more probably than the judicial branch going out of its way to help the executive.
garmaine 8y ago
> especially when it's in order to protect a corrupt dirtbag cop It was an order to protect his family from retribution from violent psychopaths that have in the past murdered not just informants / plea deal recipients, but their entire family in the most bloody way imaginable. I would not be surprised if the headline in a few days is about his wife and children dying in ways unfit to print. And it would be irresponsible journalism of the LA Times that made it happen. I’m one of the most pro free speech person I know, but I’m squarely with the judge and the right to seal court proceedings here. And with a now gone age of journalism where this crap didn’t happen in the first place.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  Wow. Your circle of acquaintances must be strongly against freedom of speech, then. You cannot create the Memory Hole by court order. LA Times has a constitutional right to print anything they obtain legally. They are not directly placing anyone's lives at risk by publishing. If anything, they could publish another article about how slipshod security practices in the court system leak sensitive information to the public, and the court system tries to censor journalists rather than investigating and fixing their own problems. The easiest way to protect the corrupt cop's family would have been to crack down on police corruption, so that no cop could get so deeply involved with a violent criminal organization that their family would ever be at risk. If the gangs couldn't get corrupt cops to cover for them, they would find it much more difficult to murder families for retaliation and intimidation. Judging by Mexico's example, publishing may also put the journalists and their families at risk. This is definitely shooting the messenger. In a system where doing that is illegal. The judge is wrong, and should be reversed. Yesterday.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    The "easy" way for cops, cop families, and normal people to be protected is to end the disastrous Drug War. It wouldn't matter if all police were paragons of virtue, applying enforcement rather than treatment to a drug problem is a sure way to end up with multiplied problems.
astura 8y ago
>this "ask for forgiveness not permission" stuff won't fly with many judges... TFA makes it extremely clear that the First Amendment gives newspapers and others the right to publish information obtained from documents that end up available to public in error. All case law indicates that the LA Times waa acting fully within the boundaries of the law and did not need to "ask for forgiveness" or whatever. This ruling is extremely unusual and clearly unconstitutional. Heres is the full redacted part: >The document was ordered to be filed under seal but appeared on PACER, a public online database for court documents. >According to the agreement, filed in U.S. District Court, Balian agreed to cooperate with federal authorities by responding truthfully and completely in interviews and court proceedings. He is scheduled to be sentenced in September, when prosecutors are expected to recommend a reduced sentence. >The charges to which he pleaded guilty carry a maximum sentence of 35 years in prison.
king_nothing 8y ago
If the death penalty were ever plausibly-beneficial, this sort of low-life would deserve it.

promopacket 8y ago

And an archive.is link of that one, for good measure: https://archive.is/g8jV7 https://archive.is/g8jV7

mirimir 8y ago
Interesting. I just tried to do that, and got pointed to https://archive.is/g8jV7 https://archive.is/g8jV7 :) Smart site!
astura 8y ago
That's the redacted version.
- mirimir 8y ago
  No, it's not. Or at least, it contains ... > John Saro Balian, 45, pleaded guilty to one count each of soliciting a bribe, obstruction of justice and making false statements to federal investigators as part of a plea agreement he reached with prosecutors. The document was ordered to be filed under seal but appeared on PACER, a public online database for court documents. > According to the agreement, filed in U.S. District Court, Balian agreed to cooperate with federal authorities by responding truthfully and completely in interviews and court proceedings. He is scheduled to be sentenced in September, when prosecutors are expected to recommend a reduced sentence. And it doesn't contain the "corrections" ... > 5:15 p.m.: This story has been updated to remove references from the filed plea agreement, which was ordered sealed by a judge but publicly available Friday on the federal court’s online document database. The changes were made to comply with an order issued Saturday by a U.S. federal judge. The Times plans to challenge the order. > 3:40 p.m.: This article was updated with a statement from the Glendale police chief. > This article was originally published at 10:55 a.m.
  - astura 8y ago
    Weird, that's not what it gave me when I clicked originally, I doubled checked. I see it now though.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

wyldfire 8y ago

Oh wow! How long until the Internet Archive is added to the order?

mirimir 8y ago
That's why https://archive.is/g8jV7 https://archive.is/g8jV7 And if that goes too, I have a local copy :)