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This lines up well with McLuhan's revelation that the search for identity is usually correlated with violence [0]. By recognizing organized sports as a "highly-

This lines up well with McLuhan's revelation that the search for identity is usually correlated with violence [0]. By recognizing organized sports as a "highly-organized form of violence" (his words) you can start to see the corollary. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI3x8WIxus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI3x8WIxus

extralego 8y ago
Oof. That is a heavy 6:40 clip of discourse. Thanks for sharing.
baxtr 8y ago
In that sense FIFA is the world’s most successful peace organization funneling national violence into sports
- AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
  This isn't that crazy of a concept, to me. FIFA does achieve rather stunning results, given its breadth. Though I do hear about conspiracies involving fixed games and about FIFA corruption from time to time, I imagine that they've done a lot more good for the world recently than the UN has. Edit: Sports are in general associated with some meaningful global events. The Olympics recently demonstrated this fact w/r/t North Korea.
  - ResearchAtPlay 8y ago
    I imagine that they've done a lot more good for the world recently than the UN has No, they have not! I am not sure by what metric one can compare FIFA and the United Nations, but I don't think you you are familiar with the breadth of the UN's work. Selected achievements from their results page [1]: -Every year we mobilize about $7 billion in humanitarian aid to help people affected by emergencies. -Every year we assist over 34 million refugees and others fleeing war, famine and persecution. -We vaccinate 40% of the world’s children, saving 2 million lives a year. -In 2011 the UN will provide food to around 90 million people in 73 countries. -In the past few years, the UN has expanded legal international rights to indigenous peoples, people with disabilities, migrants and their families. FIFA is merely better at marketing... [1]http://www.un.org/en/strengtheningtheun/results.shtml http://www.un.org/en/strengtheningtheun/results.shtml
    - barry-cotter 8y ago
      The U.N. is way better at marketing than FIFA could ever dream of being. You’re assuming that all those things would not have been done if the UN didn’t exist. The good things done by the U.N. are a consequence of its funders. If the UN had never been founded other organisations would have been to do the jobs the UN does now. If the UN collapsed tomorrow the associated humanitarian organisations would rebrand and continue.
    - AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
      The UN is clearly the better marketer, because it needs to work much harder to justify its ongoing "good" for the world. I wonder if FIFA has ever been discovered to be running hugely corrupt wings like UN's WIPA which keeps trying to stuff some form of ACTA/SOPA/PIPA down our throats. I wonder if FIFA has been found to ever profit from the rape and sexual abuse of minors. Minors, who descend from some of the most war-torn and horrific places on Earth. 7 billion annually and look how little they get done each year. Capitalism is much more responsible for Africa's and Asia's escape from poverty than the UN is - and that's a rather low bar. I laugh at the idea that the UN, and not the charities they force to go through them, is responsible for saving 2 million lives per year. I wonder how many millions they let die each year. In terms of global politics, FIFA is rather benevolent and yet they foster ongoing positive international relations benefits. The UN is, at best, malevolent, and I am dubious that their positives outweigh their enormous negatives, not to mention their negative externalities.
      - nothrabannosir 8y ago
        > I wonder if FIFA has ever been discovered to be running hugely corrupt wings, like… Surely, surely you’re joking? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case That is an entire Wikipedia page about a corruption case only involving tax evasion , following an investigation by the IRS. This is the FIFA , which decided, completely non corrupt of course, that Qatar is the best place to host a World Cup. Some people follow through on this anecdote with reasons as to why that’s a worse place to do so than actual Hell, but I prefer to prompt you to sit back a moment and think about that. Qatar. Forget about Russia: Qatar. For a sporting match. In summer. Qatar. For context, these were the final bids for 2022: South Korea, Qatar, Japan, Australia, U.S.A. Qatar. FIFA is not corrupt? Sepp “football is politics” Blatter’s FIFA? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Blatter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Blatter Surely you’re joking?
- sametmax 8y ago
  We had games for that for ever. We can't get gladiators anymore so we have football, races and ring fights. "Panem et circenses" is hardly a new concept.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Gladiators are 2000 years old, moreover, they didn't represent anyone. And 'international sports' don't really go back that far, surprisingly. The 'oldest currently active international sports competition' is actually the annual hockey game between the Royal Military College (Canada), and Westpoint - or so I'm told. There are arguments for America's cup, but that's a different kind of representation. Those are 1870's vs. 1850's respectively. So it's really kind of a new thing, and Olympics, World Cup, Commonwealth Games are definitely created in part to build fraternity and collegiately between nations etc.. I think it's also fair to question the term 'violence' because maybe it's really a matter of 'competition' at a physical, visceral level, i.e. 'dominance'. But it's a good point.
    - sametmax 8y ago
      > Gladiators are 2000 years old My point, exactly. > they didn't represent anyone. Of course their did. People had their favorites. Community had champions. Besides, 11 people representing a country is just a ploy to entertain people. There is zero level of relationship between the players and the rest country. Anyway, the point is moot. It doesn't change the basis of the mechanism: entertaining the mass so that they divert they aggressiveness.
      - philwelch 8y ago
        > Besides, 11 people representing a country is just a ploy to entertain people. There is zero level of relationship between the players and the rest country. Aside from the legal requirement that they be citizens of the country they play for, and that once a player represents his country in a competitive match, they are bound to represent that same country for the rest of their lives, barring some extraordinary situation where the country itself breaks up or ceases to exist.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  "Football is war" - Rinus "The General" Michels. For the non-soccer fans: Michels was the trainer who invented the Total Football playstyle and was named coach of the century by FIFA in 1999[0]. Although I just learned from Wikipedia that the above quote is taken out of context, I always thought it was an insightful one: football is ritual warfare. And as the article suggests, we're probably better off for its existence, because those tribal instincts are still in our DNA, and they need to come out one way or the other. And I say that as someone who really dislikes football, partially because of the tribalism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels
  - Lewton 8y ago
    I don't think there's any particularly good reason to believe that giving tribalism an outlet through sports is healthy. It might as well be that giving tribalism an outlet leads to more tribalism. Kind of like how expressing emotional anger might make you angrier[0] [0] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102344514&t=1531744331893 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102344...
    - vanderZwan 8y ago
      Play-fighting is different from real fighting, though.
      - moretai 8y ago
        Yeah people don't die. But there's a chance that energy gets dispensed through other forms. I mean there is so much money in sports. There is so much money in just exerting dominance. So much to gain. Notoriety. Plus, I can't even begin to imagine the mental destruction that goes on in these players. Depression, Ego Inflation to the point of psychosis. Why can't we transcend domination and go back to play?
buzzert 8y ago
“Smash TV” might come true after all!

extralego 8y ago

Oof. That is a heavy 6:40 clip of discourse. Thanks for sharing.

baxtr 8y ago

In that sense FIFA is the world’s most successful peace organization funneling national violence into sports

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
This isn't that crazy of a concept, to me. FIFA does achieve rather stunning results, given its breadth. Though I do hear about conspiracies involving fixed games and about FIFA corruption from time to time, I imagine that they've done a lot more good for the world recently than the UN has. Edit: Sports are in general associated with some meaningful global events. The Olympics recently demonstrated this fact w/r/t North Korea.
- ResearchAtPlay 8y ago
  I imagine that they've done a lot more good for the world recently than the UN has No, they have not! I am not sure by what metric one can compare FIFA and the United Nations, but I don't think you you are familiar with the breadth of the UN's work. Selected achievements from their results page [1]: -Every year we mobilize about $7 billion in humanitarian aid to help people affected by emergencies. -Every year we assist over 34 million refugees and others fleeing war, famine and persecution. -We vaccinate 40% of the world’s children, saving 2 million lives a year. -In 2011 the UN will provide food to around 90 million people in 73 countries. -In the past few years, the UN has expanded legal international rights to indigenous peoples, people with disabilities, migrants and their families. FIFA is merely better at marketing... [1]http://www.un.org/en/strengtheningtheun/results.shtml http://www.un.org/en/strengtheningtheun/results.shtml
  - barry-cotter 8y ago
    The U.N. is way better at marketing than FIFA could ever dream of being. You’re assuming that all those things would not have been done if the UN didn’t exist. The good things done by the U.N. are a consequence of its funders. If the UN had never been founded other organisations would have been to do the jobs the UN does now. If the UN collapsed tomorrow the associated humanitarian organisations would rebrand and continue.
  - AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
    The UN is clearly the better marketer, because it needs to work much harder to justify its ongoing "good" for the world. I wonder if FIFA has ever been discovered to be running hugely corrupt wings like UN's WIPA which keeps trying to stuff some form of ACTA/SOPA/PIPA down our throats. I wonder if FIFA has been found to ever profit from the rape and sexual abuse of minors. Minors, who descend from some of the most war-torn and horrific places on Earth. 7 billion annually and look how little they get done each year. Capitalism is much more responsible for Africa's and Asia's escape from poverty than the UN is - and that's a rather low bar. I laugh at the idea that the UN, and not the charities they force to go through them, is responsible for saving 2 million lives per year. I wonder how many millions they let die each year. In terms of global politics, FIFA is rather benevolent and yet they foster ongoing positive international relations benefits. The UN is, at best, malevolent, and I am dubious that their positives outweigh their enormous negatives, not to mention their negative externalities.
    - nothrabannosir 8y ago
      > I wonder if FIFA has ever been discovered to be running hugely corrupt wings, like… Surely, surely you’re joking? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case That is an entire Wikipedia page about a corruption case only involving tax evasion , following an investigation by the IRS. This is the FIFA , which decided, completely non corrupt of course, that Qatar is the best place to host a World Cup. Some people follow through on this anecdote with reasons as to why that’s a worse place to do so than actual Hell, but I prefer to prompt you to sit back a moment and think about that. Qatar. Forget about Russia: Qatar. For a sporting match. In summer. Qatar. For context, these were the final bids for 2022: South Korea, Qatar, Japan, Australia, U.S.A. Qatar. FIFA is not corrupt? Sepp “football is politics” Blatter’s FIFA? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Blatter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Blatter Surely you’re joking?
sametmax 8y ago
We had games for that for ever. We can't get gladiators anymore so we have football, races and ring fights. "Panem et circenses" is hardly a new concept.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Gladiators are 2000 years old, moreover, they didn't represent anyone. And 'international sports' don't really go back that far, surprisingly. The 'oldest currently active international sports competition' is actually the annual hockey game between the Royal Military College (Canada), and Westpoint - or so I'm told. There are arguments for America's cup, but that's a different kind of representation. Those are 1870's vs. 1850's respectively. So it's really kind of a new thing, and Olympics, World Cup, Commonwealth Games are definitely created in part to build fraternity and collegiately between nations etc.. I think it's also fair to question the term 'violence' because maybe it's really a matter of 'competition' at a physical, visceral level, i.e. 'dominance'. But it's a good point.
  - sametmax 8y ago
    > Gladiators are 2000 years old My point, exactly. > they didn't represent anyone. Of course their did. People had their favorites. Community had champions. Besides, 11 people representing a country is just a ploy to entertain people. There is zero level of relationship between the players and the rest country. Anyway, the point is moot. It doesn't change the basis of the mechanism: entertaining the mass so that they divert they aggressiveness.
    - philwelch 8y ago
      > Besides, 11 people representing a country is just a ploy to entertain people. There is zero level of relationship between the players and the rest country. Aside from the legal requirement that they be citizens of the country they play for, and that once a player represents his country in a competitive match, they are bound to represent that same country for the rest of their lives, barring some extraordinary situation where the country itself breaks up or ceases to exist.
vanderZwan 8y ago
"Football is war" - Rinus "The General" Michels. For the non-soccer fans: Michels was the trainer who invented the Total Football playstyle and was named coach of the century by FIFA in 1999[0]. Although I just learned from Wikipedia that the above quote is taken out of context, I always thought it was an insightful one: football is ritual warfare. And as the article suggests, we're probably better off for its existence, because those tribal instincts are still in our DNA, and they need to come out one way or the other. And I say that as someone who really dislikes football, partially because of the tribalism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels
- Lewton 8y ago
  I don't think there's any particularly good reason to believe that giving tribalism an outlet through sports is healthy. It might as well be that giving tribalism an outlet leads to more tribalism. Kind of like how expressing emotional anger might make you angrier[0] [0] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102344514&t=1531744331893 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102344...
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    Play-fighting is different from real fighting, though.
    - moretai 8y ago
      Yeah people don't die. But there's a chance that energy gets dispensed through other forms. I mean there is so much money in sports. There is so much money in just exerting dominance. So much to gain. Notoriety. Plus, I can't even begin to imagine the mental destruction that goes on in these players. Depression, Ego Inflation to the point of psychosis. Why can't we transcend domination and go back to play?

buzzert 8y ago

“Smash TV” might come true after all!