6 ms·

One of the owners of Netgate, the main company behind pfSense here... Looks great! I’m impressed. I’m actually about to be out of touch for a week, so I’ve c

by gonzo 8y ago

One of the owners of Netgate, the main company behind pfSense here... Looks great! I’m impressed. I’m actually about to be out of touch for a week, so I’ve cloned the code for Router7 to read while I’m offline.

chrissnell 8y ago
For those unfamiliar with Netgate, they make fantastic little appliances for DIY routers (in addition to the commercial pfSense offerings). They're a great option if you are looking for an alternative to PC Engines. I don't have any affiliation with them, other than having run their 8-port model at home for the last two years without any issues.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  Netgate is far, far more expensive than PC Engines (do you see anything near $100 or 100 EUR here? [1] No, you don't). It isn't even remotely in the same league. An 8 port model at home is overkill, and expensive. You're better off using a switch plus an appliance. If we're casually mentioning alternatives to PC Engines (who provide, AFAIK, the cheapest solution and are using Coreboot): https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/ https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/ developed & supported by Deciso BV. Still supports x86-32, unlike pfSense. Their official hardware is also expensive though, just like Netgate. If you want a cheap PC Engines alternative running Linux I can recommend Ubiquiti gear instead. The entry level products are cheap (ER-L, for example, has 3 ports and costs ~100 EUR), and the Unifi products are user-friendly, while the EdgeMAX allow more freedom/control at the price of user-friendliness. Although it isn't DIY like the other solutions, that could be an advantage. But if you're going the DIY route anyway, PC Engines gives the best bang for the buck unless you need 4G modem support. [1] https://store.netgate.com/ https://store.netgate.com/
  - JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    Appears the SG-1000 is $149. Only 2 GBe ports (WAN, LAN), but as you say, you can use a swtich.
    - gonzo 8y ago
      Heh, I should put router7 on the sg-1000. or, better, the board based on the espresso.bin design.
      - secure 8y ago
        Let me know how that goes, if you decide for it :)
        gonzo 8y ago
        Sure thing
    - Fnoord 8y ago
      Yeah, that's the cheapest device available. If you only need 2 ports, the apu2c0 is only $99 w/o case (~$10 for the case) [1]. An espressobin (w/o peripherals) goes for $50. EdgeRouter X (1 WAN, 4 LAN ports) goes for 50 EUR here, with SFP module it goes for 75 EUR. Those are competitive prices. Netgate's cheapest device is expensive by comparison. Doesn't say anything about the quality though! [1] https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=4 https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=4
      - 15155 8y ago
        These are full x86 machines that can handle a much different workload than an EdgeRouter X. Try and do any kind of meaningful traffic shaping, firewalling, with an ERX. Or, just make some configuration change which knocks traffic handling out of silicon and into the CPU: you'll quickly see where the extra money would've been nice. My only serious complaint about pfSense is that BSD only has single-threaded PPPoE, which really does not work well at anything approaching gigabit speeds.
        Fnoord 8y ago
        > These are full x86 machines that can handle a much different workload than an EdgeRouter X. These are x86-64 (AMD64) machines, running a 64-bit fork of FreeBSD. pfSense doesn't run on x86-32 anymore (even though x86-32 works perfectly fine as router). The argument is that its "ancient" hardware; yet here we are discussing single-threaded PPPoE... EdgeRouter X is a bit weak, sure (though it also does not use a lot of power), EdgeRouter Lite (which I got) is already much better performance, sports a MIPS64 and more RAM. > [..] you'll quickly see where the extra money would've been nice. If I'd want the highest performance + bang of buck + got the time to maintain (including the hardware) I'd go for PC Engines plus OPNsense or Router-7. But I don't want to put a lot of effort/time in maintaining my home router. I'm positive we'll have loads of fun with RISV-V routers in the near future. If not the big corps, perhaps smaller ones. Amazon also appears to have plans to sell switches with AWS support. There's also MicroTik/RouterOS.

by gonzo 8y ago

chrissnell 8y ago

For those unfamiliar with Netgate, they make fantastic little appliances for DIY routers (in addition to the commercial pfSense offerings). They're a great option if you are looking for an alternative to PC Engines. I don't have any affiliation with them, other than having run their 8-port model at home for the last two years without any issues.

Fnoord 8y ago
Netgate is far, far more expensive than PC Engines (do you see anything near $100 or 100 EUR here? [1] No, you don't). It isn't even remotely in the same league. An 8 port model at home is overkill, and expensive. You're better off using a switch plus an appliance. If we're casually mentioning alternatives to PC Engines (who provide, AFAIK, the cheapest solution and are using Coreboot): https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/ https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/ developed & supported by Deciso BV. Still supports x86-32, unlike pfSense. Their official hardware is also expensive though, just like Netgate. If you want a cheap PC Engines alternative running Linux I can recommend Ubiquiti gear instead. The entry level products are cheap (ER-L, for example, has 3 ports and costs ~100 EUR), and the Unifi products are user-friendly, while the EdgeMAX allow more freedom/control at the price of user-friendliness. Although it isn't DIY like the other solutions, that could be an advantage. But if you're going the DIY route anyway, PC Engines gives the best bang for the buck unless you need 4G modem support. [1] https://store.netgate.com/ https://store.netgate.com/
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  Appears the SG-1000 is $149. Only 2 GBe ports (WAN, LAN), but as you say, you can use a swtich.
  - gonzo 8y ago
    Heh, I should put router7 on the sg-1000. or, better, the board based on the espresso.bin design.
    - secure 8y ago
      Let me know how that goes, if you decide for it :)
      - gonzo 8y ago
        Sure thing
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    Yeah, that's the cheapest device available. If you only need 2 ports, the apu2c0 is only $99 w/o case (~$10 for the case) [1]. An espressobin (w/o peripherals) goes for $50. EdgeRouter X (1 WAN, 4 LAN ports) goes for 50 EUR here, with SFP module it goes for 75 EUR. Those are competitive prices. Netgate's cheapest device is expensive by comparison. Doesn't say anything about the quality though! [1] https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=4 https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=4
    - 15155 8y ago
      These are full x86 machines that can handle a much different workload than an EdgeRouter X. Try and do any kind of meaningful traffic shaping, firewalling, with an ERX. Or, just make some configuration change which knocks traffic handling out of silicon and into the CPU: you'll quickly see where the extra money would've been nice. My only serious complaint about pfSense is that BSD only has single-threaded PPPoE, which really does not work well at anything approaching gigabit speeds.
      - Fnoord 8y ago
        > These are full x86 machines that can handle a much different workload than an EdgeRouter X. These are x86-64 (AMD64) machines, running a 64-bit fork of FreeBSD. pfSense doesn't run on x86-32 anymore (even though x86-32 works perfectly fine as router). The argument is that its "ancient" hardware; yet here we are discussing single-threaded PPPoE... EdgeRouter X is a bit weak, sure (though it also does not use a lot of power), EdgeRouter Lite (which I got) is already much better performance, sports a MIPS64 and more RAM. > [..] you'll quickly see where the extra money would've been nice. If I'd want the highest performance + bang of buck + got the time to maintain (including the hardware) I'd go for PC Engines plus OPNsense or Router-7. But I don't want to put a lot of effort/time in maintaining my home router. I'm positive we'll have loads of fun with RISV-V routers in the near future. If not the big corps, perhaps smaller ones. Amazon also appears to have plans to sell switches with AWS support. There's also MicroTik/RouterOS.