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You're communicating that there are just two dichotomies: either one believes luck is real and so should just do nothing and buy lottery tickets, or one believe

You're communicating that there are just two dichotomies: either one believes luck is real and so should just do nothing and buy lottery tickets, or one believes it's not real and is doing things that are useful. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you were aiming at with the lottery ticket example, given that it's pretty much nobody's choice even if they believe in luck.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
I spent nearly 6 years homeless. There are an awful lot of people who are homeless whose plan seems to be "buy lottery tickets" and otherwise do little or nothing to improve their situation because it seems hopeless. They feel they need a "big win" and anything less won't matter. I worked hard at solving my problems and eventually got myself off the street. There are lots of people who seem to apply that same general mentality to life. We know that diet and lifestyle are huge factors in health outcomes, but many people don't really take that seriously. The connection between eating right and better health isn't immediate and obvious enough. I write about issues like homelessness and I generally look at both pieces of the equation -- what the individual can do for themselves in spite of society not being helpful enough and what society needs to do differently. I see zero reason to assume that encouraging individuals to not engage in learned helplessness should be an excuse for society to not offer a social safety net or work on improving the one that exists.
- chillingeffect 8y ago
  cool... would you point us to some of your writing? i needed some scary/wake-up moments to nudge my health into the right zone!
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I don't like posting my health blog on HN. You can find it via my twitter account if you really want. Pocketputer.com should get you to both Street Life Solutions (About page) and San Diego Homeless Survival Guide (Links page). My Patreon link is in my profile as well.
- projektir 8y ago
  That's cool I guess, but I neither buy lottery tickets nor believe diet/lifestyle are irrelevant, yet I'm a big believer in the importance of luck and the importance of believing in the importance of luck (hehe), so where does that leave me in your dichotomy? There's more room here than learned helplessness, in fact, I think that doesn't derive from the "luck is important" mindset at all. See my post here since I'd just be repeating the same thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17535786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17535786
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    so where does that leave me in your dichotomy? 1. I wasn't talking about you in specific. 2. It's a relatively brief forum comment. It's not reasonable to assume it needs to cover all possible use cases as if it were, say, a scholarly paper. 3. It's entirely possible to engage someone in discussion and say "Ah, well, that sounds like a dichotomy that I don't fit." or something like that without being attacking or dismissive of the basic point the person was trying to make. 4. I don't like talking to people who come across as hell bent on shooting down everything I say rather than trying to understand my point. So I think I'm probably done replying to you in this thread.
    - projektir 8y ago
      > I don't like talking to people who come across as hell bent on shooting down everything I say rather than trying to understand my point. So I think I'm probably done replying to you in this thread. I am just going to note that you're doing a very similar thing with statements like these: > I see zero reason to assume that encouraging individuals to not engage in learned helplessness should be an excuse for society to not offer a social safety net or work on improving the one that exists. So you may not be getting the results you're expecting because you're generating strawmen in your posts to which naturally the other poster is going to be inclined to reply in the somewhat less understanding manner. It's not always easy to keep these discussions fully level and polite, and I absolutely fail in that all the time, but, like, pot, kettle.
      - 8y ago

DoreenMichele 8y ago

I spent nearly 6 years homeless. There are an awful lot of people who are homeless whose plan seems to be "buy lottery tickets" and otherwise do little or nothing to improve their situation because it seems hopeless. They feel they need a "big win" and anything less won't matter. I worked hard at solving my problems and eventually got myself off the street. There are lots of people who seem to apply that same general mentality to life. We know that diet and lifestyle are huge factors in health outcomes, but many people don't really take that seriously. The connection between eating right and better health isn't immediate and obvious enough. I write about issues like homelessness and I generally look at both pieces of the equation -- what the individual can do for themselves in spite of society not being helpful enough and what society needs to do differently. I see zero reason to assume that encouraging individuals to not engage in learned helplessness should be an excuse for society to not offer a social safety net or work on improving the one that exists.

chillingeffect 8y ago
cool... would you point us to some of your writing? i needed some scary/wake-up moments to nudge my health into the right zone!
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I don't like posting my health blog on HN. You can find it via my twitter account if you really want. Pocketputer.com should get you to both Street Life Solutions (About page) and San Diego Homeless Survival Guide (Links page). My Patreon link is in my profile as well.
projektir 8y ago
That's cool I guess, but I neither buy lottery tickets nor believe diet/lifestyle are irrelevant, yet I'm a big believer in the importance of luck and the importance of believing in the importance of luck (hehe), so where does that leave me in your dichotomy? There's more room here than learned helplessness, in fact, I think that doesn't derive from the "luck is important" mindset at all. See my post here since I'd just be repeating the same thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17535786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17535786
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  so where does that leave me in your dichotomy? 1. I wasn't talking about you in specific. 2. It's a relatively brief forum comment. It's not reasonable to assume it needs to cover all possible use cases as if it were, say, a scholarly paper. 3. It's entirely possible to engage someone in discussion and say "Ah, well, that sounds like a dichotomy that I don't fit." or something like that without being attacking or dismissive of the basic point the person was trying to make. 4. I don't like talking to people who come across as hell bent on shooting down everything I say rather than trying to understand my point. So I think I'm probably done replying to you in this thread.
  - projektir 8y ago
    > I don't like talking to people who come across as hell bent on shooting down everything I say rather than trying to understand my point. So I think I'm probably done replying to you in this thread. I am just going to note that you're doing a very similar thing with statements like these: > I see zero reason to assume that encouraging individuals to not engage in learned helplessness should be an excuse for society to not offer a social safety net or work on improving the one that exists. So you may not be getting the results you're expecting because you're generating strawmen in your posts to which naturally the other poster is going to be inclined to reply in the somewhat less understanding manner. It's not always easy to keep these discussions fully level and polite, and I absolutely fail in that all the time, but, like, pot, kettle.
    - 8y ago