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I've always wondered what sad life Linus leads to make him communicate like every developer I've worked with that I don't want to work with. Clearly he has deep

I've always wondered what sad life Linus leads to make him communicate like every developer I've worked with that I don't want to work with. Clearly he has deeper issues that lead to his blooming sarcasm and condescension, that our community already struggles with. This behavior is not normal, nor sustainable.

bdcravens 8y ago
> This behavior is not normal, nor sustainable. I can't speak to how Linus's personality has changed over time, but for a 27 year old software project, I'd say it hasn't impacted sustainability.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
One thing though is that the “nice” maintainers of popular open source projects burn out (see Guido’s recent retirement as BDFL). Linus seems to be going strong. I would rather have a mean, effective Linus than a nice, burned out Linus.
- vortico 8y ago
  Yes, this is absolutely the reason. Open-source software maintainance burns out people daily, and most can only tolerate <4 years. 20+ years is godlike, and can only be achieved if you have the world's longest patience, or correctly direct your madness on exactly the people who caused it. It's the only way. All maintainers do it to some extent, depending on how far separated they are with their contributers. Linus works very closely with them, which is why he experiences so much BS firsthand.
userbinator 8y ago
This behavior is not normal Some of the other comments here have mentioned, but it bears repeating: this is not the "normal" Linus. He doesn't rant 100% of the time, but when he does, you had better pay attention because it must be something very important.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  I don't understand this justification. If someone I worked with had a habit of "occasionally" insulting people, they should be fired. Just because we can't fire Linus doesn't mean what he does is okay.
  - derefr 8y ago
    Some people are in the 99.99th percentile of being irritating and proposing bad ideas, such that virtually nobody on earth has enough diplomacy to stifle their temper when having to deal with them for extended periods. Most people are never forced to deal with enough people, to regularly be forced into extended contact with this particular kind of person. The kind of person who is forced to deal with enough people that they are likely to inevitably, eventually have to work with such people, is what we usually refer to as "a politician." But that's not quite accurate. See, elected politicians learn to hide their distaste for such people, and that's how we get our sense of what it means to "act like a politician." But founders, kings, and other such benevolent-dictator-for-life are still politicians—they have to hold court taking the full spectrum of opinions from the brilliant to the idiotic—but they don't usually bother to hide this distaste. We have no equivalent word for someone forced to do what a politician does, but without the same incentives to put on a face and pretend they aren't hating some parts of their job.
    - peterwwillis 8y ago
      Oh. So we allow people to be assholes when they have power. Got it.
      - sundarurfriend 8y ago
        Yeah, way to boil that down to what you want it to say.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - derefr 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
megaman22 8y ago
Yikes, I'm disturbed that occasional outbursts of righteous anger would make someone start assuming serious psychological problems. That's concerning to me - and I do not think I would be comfortable working with people who are so deeply offended by an angry email. God help you if you'd ever grown up working on farm equipment.
- stevebmark 8y ago
  We were all 26 once. Professionalism builds successful teams long term. Calling out toxic behavior that worsens things, like others imposter syndrome, is part of how we help things get better.
fgonzag 8y ago
His issues are pretty clear. A constant stream of (and let's be frank here) bullshit he has clearly outlawed in the project. At the end of the day, most of the angry rants are about high level or influential people breaking kernel mantras. Don't break them, especially when you should know better. I'm impressed by his level of self control honestly, when I imagine the constant stream of horse shit he probably has to deal with on the daily.

bdcravens 8y ago

> This behavior is not normal, nor sustainable. I can't speak to how Linus's personality has changed over time, but for a 27 year old software project, I'd say it hasn't impacted sustainability.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago

One thing though is that the “nice” maintainers of popular open source projects burn out (see Guido’s recent retirement as BDFL). Linus seems to be going strong. I would rather have a mean, effective Linus than a nice, burned out Linus.

vortico 8y ago
Yes, this is absolutely the reason. Open-source software maintainance burns out people daily, and most can only tolerate <4 years. 20+ years is godlike, and can only be achieved if you have the world's longest patience, or correctly direct your madness on exactly the people who caused it. It's the only way. All maintainers do it to some extent, depending on how far separated they are with their contributers. Linus works very closely with them, which is why he experiences so much BS firsthand.

userbinator 8y ago

This behavior is not normal Some of the other comments here have mentioned, but it bears repeating: this is not the "normal" Linus. He doesn't rant 100% of the time, but when he does, you had better pay attention because it must be something very important.

peterwwillis 8y ago
I don't understand this justification. If someone I worked with had a habit of "occasionally" insulting people, they should be fired. Just because we can't fire Linus doesn't mean what he does is okay.
- derefr 8y ago
  Some people are in the 99.99th percentile of being irritating and proposing bad ideas, such that virtually nobody on earth has enough diplomacy to stifle their temper when having to deal with them for extended periods. Most people are never forced to deal with enough people, to regularly be forced into extended contact with this particular kind of person. The kind of person who is forced to deal with enough people that they are likely to inevitably, eventually have to work with such people, is what we usually refer to as "a politician." But that's not quite accurate. See, elected politicians learn to hide their distaste for such people, and that's how we get our sense of what it means to "act like a politician." But founders, kings, and other such benevolent-dictator-for-life are still politicians—they have to hold court taking the full spectrum of opinions from the brilliant to the idiotic—but they don't usually bother to hide this distaste. We have no equivalent word for someone forced to do what a politician does, but without the same incentives to put on a face and pretend they aren't hating some parts of their job.
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    Oh. So we allow people to be assholes when they have power. Got it.
    - sundarurfriend 8y ago
      Yeah, way to boil that down to what you want it to say.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - derefr 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

megaman22 8y ago

Yikes, I'm disturbed that occasional outbursts of righteous anger would make someone start assuming serious psychological problems. That's concerning to me - and I do not think I would be comfortable working with people who are so deeply offended by an angry email. God help you if you'd ever grown up working on farm equipment.

stevebmark 8y ago
We were all 26 once. Professionalism builds successful teams long term. Calling out toxic behavior that worsens things, like others imposter syndrome, is part of how we help things get better.

fgonzag 8y ago

His issues are pretty clear. A constant stream of (and let's be frank here) bullshit he has clearly outlawed in the project. At the end of the day, most of the angry rants are about high level or influential people breaking kernel mantras. Don't break them, especially when you should know better. I'm impressed by his level of self control honestly, when I imagine the constant stream of horse shit he probably has to deal with on the daily.