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Exactly. Furthermore, the US is a comparatively young country. A lot of cities with great public transport either already existed before cars were around, or ha

Exactly. Furthermore, the US is a comparatively young country. A lot of cities with great public transport either already existed before cars were around, or had the necessary population density to support mass transit. I recently came back from a visit to London, and did not once need a car (I did take an Uber because I wanted to see what it was like to drive from the left side!). It was fantastic being able to take the Underground anywhere I needed to be, but it was very clear that it was only possible because the city was already there and densely populated before the arrival of cars.

Sharlin 8y ago
To a large extent it’s about path dependency as well. You simply aren’t going to fit car infrastructure in a dense urban area whose streets were originally made for horses and pedestrians. It’s not like several European cities didn’t try though, in the heyday of car-oriented urban planning from the 50s to the 70s. Insofar as those attempts succeeded they are now being undone in favor of transit and walkability.
felipemnoa 8y ago
>>I recently came back from a visit to London, and did not once need a car Well, to be fair, if you are talking about a specific city in Europe then you should do the same here in the USA. London's american equivalent is NYC. You will not need a car here either.
oblio 8y ago
Arguable. For every London in Europe, there’s 10 cities that grew 3-5-10x since 1945. After all, the postwar boom happened on both sides of the Atlantic. London, Paris, etc. are outliers. It was just policy decisions in many cases.
wool_gather 8y ago
I don't understand this argument. The automobile is much younger than the country. Cars became broadly used about a century ago, the 1910s-20s. How many U.S. cities do you imagine there are that were created after that? Or even that, due to cars, dramatically changed their size relative to the overall population?
- hoorayimhelping 8y ago
  >How many U.S. cities do you imagine there are that were created after that? Quite a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb#Post-war_suburban_expansion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb#Post-war_suburban_expan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_New_York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_New_York
- GW150914 8y ago
  Created, or built-up, expanded, and for more heavily populated? The US population has more than tripled in that same period, and the percentage of those people living in rural areas dropped precipitously.
madhadron 8y ago
Historical note: most US cities had dense public transit until the rise of the automobile. Those transit systems were bought by the car companies and dismantled to drive adoption of private cars. A similar path led to the creation of the crime of 'jaywalking' and getting people off of the streets so car adoption wouldn't be stopped by high rates of drivers killing pedestrians.
ghaff 8y ago
>I recently came back from a visit to London, and did not once need a car I'm not sure this is a great test. (Though, yes, London does have a great transit system even though I've also taken cabs from time to time for various reasons.) When I visit American cities and don't travel outside them, I very rarely rent a car and don't necessarily take cabs/Lyfts all that much other than getting from the airport. I'm usually staying/doing business in/eating in a relatively central location that often exists in cities that are otherwise fairly spread out. To give just an example that I'm very familiar with. I never rent a car any longer when I visit Raleigh but I'd never claim you could live there without a car.

Sharlin 8y ago

To a large extent it’s about path dependency as well. You simply aren’t going to fit car infrastructure in a dense urban area whose streets were originally made for horses and pedestrians. It’s not like several European cities didn’t try though, in the heyday of car-oriented urban planning from the 50s to the 70s. Insofar as those attempts succeeded they are now being undone in favor of transit and walkability.

felipemnoa 8y ago

>>I recently came back from a visit to London, and did not once need a car Well, to be fair, if you are talking about a specific city in Europe then you should do the same here in the USA. London's american equivalent is NYC. You will not need a car here either.

oblio 8y ago

Arguable. For every London in Europe, there’s 10 cities that grew 3-5-10x since 1945. After all, the postwar boom happened on both sides of the Atlantic. London, Paris, etc. are outliers. It was just policy decisions in many cases.

wool_gather 8y ago

I don't understand this argument. The automobile is much younger than the country. Cars became broadly used about a century ago, the 1910s-20s. How many U.S. cities do you imagine there are that were created after that? Or even that, due to cars, dramatically changed their size relative to the overall population?

hoorayimhelping 8y ago
>How many U.S. cities do you imagine there are that were created after that? Quite a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb#Post-war_suburban_expansion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb#Post-war_suburban_expan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_New_York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_New_York
GW150914 8y ago
Created, or built-up, expanded, and for more heavily populated? The US population has more than tripled in that same period, and the percentage of those people living in rural areas dropped precipitously.

madhadron 8y ago

Historical note: most US cities had dense public transit until the rise of the automobile. Those transit systems were bought by the car companies and dismantled to drive adoption of private cars. A similar path led to the creation of the crime of 'jaywalking' and getting people off of the streets so car adoption wouldn't be stopped by high rates of drivers killing pedestrians.

ghaff 8y ago

>I recently came back from a visit to London, and did not once need a car I'm not sure this is a great test. (Though, yes, London does have a great transit system even though I've also taken cabs from time to time for various reasons.) When I visit American cities and don't travel outside them, I very rarely rent a car and don't necessarily take cabs/Lyfts all that much other than getting from the airport. I'm usually staying/doing business in/eating in a relatively central location that often exists in cities that are otherwise fairly spread out. To give just an example that I'm very familiar with. I never rent a car any longer when I visit Raleigh but I'd never claim you could live there without a car.