4 ms·

A family member describes to me the love affair of the automobile ~65 years ago did this. It became so ingrained in the culture, intentionally designing cities

by cmurf 8y ago

A family member describes to me the love affair of the automobile ~65 years ago did this. It became so ingrained in the culture, intentionally designing cities around the car so that you could drive more. Americans loved showing off cars, they loved driving them. Teenage boys' psyche used it as a way to get out of the house, away from their parents (this is city life in middle America during and post-WWII) in particular as men came home from the war, and women weren't doing as much factory work. Kids wanted out of the house all day long. Cars were many things to people but it was the hyped technology of that era and making everything bigger, including all the available infrastructure was a "good thing". You'd see gas stations on every corner. Another family member of that same era to this day says "rip out the trees, rip out the bike lanes, put in more lanes to deal with this god awful traffic!" Driving is a right. It is not a privilege. Again, it's that ingrained in the culture, and the belief system. One of those family members gets that cars are on the way out and other things need to replace it for the sake of the planet and human sanity. As much as it was induced sanity in the beginning, it's now a source of individual and public planning stress. The other family member has zero interest in accommodating anything but more cars. This still manifests in how Americans get driver's licenses: states issue them, and the testing is pretty much a disqualification test not a qualification test; by that I mean it's not so much up to you to prove you're a safe driver but for the test to prove you're not. And boom you get a license. Literally no experience required, no driver's education required. Your uncle can teach you how to drive. It might be 2018 but it's the wild west and cowboys still exist here!

dsnuh 8y ago
I'm not familiar with licensing requirements in other countries, are they more rigorous?
- jdietrich 8y ago
  Here in the UK, you need to take a multiple-choice theory test and a practical driving test. The practical test takes about 40 minutes and is conducted on public roads. The pass rate for both the theory and practical test is about 50%. It's not uncommon for learners to fail the practical test several times. You're not required to have professional instruction but the vast majority of people do, because it's extremely difficult to pass the driving test without it. Most instructors recommend 30 to 40 hours of tuition before attempting the test. Learners who are driving on a provisional license prior to passing their test must be accompanied by someone who has held a full license for at least three years. They must display an L-plate on the front and rear of the vehicle and cannot use motorways (freeways) unless they are accompanied by a licensed instructor. It is my understanding that the British process is relatively straightforward by European standards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_the_United_... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720308/drt-statistics-jan-to-mar-2018.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
  - brohee 8y ago
    Basically the same thing in France.
  - dsnuh 8y ago
    That doesn't sound all that different from requirements in CA, save the special license plate tags.
ghaff 8y ago
>Literally no experience required, no driver's education required. Your uncle can teach you how to drive. Driver's ed at least used to be pretty common,in part because it gave a discount for the (expensive) insurance covering younger drivers. I don't see anything special about the typical driver's ed instructor anyway. It's not like the typical driver's ed is some expensive defensive driving course taught by an ex race car driver. Furthermore, the typical system is that someone gets a learners permit first which lets them drive only under a limited set of conditions so they gain experience that way. And, honestly, you gain experience by doing things not taking classes.
- wool_gather 8y ago
  > you gain experience by doing things not taking classes. Sure, but "experience" doesn't have to mean you're out there on the highway with everyone else. You don't start scuba diving in the actual ocean. You get experience in a pool for a while first.
- mjevans 8y ago
  The important thing about driver's ed is that it's a /professional/ teaching the foundational experience (they also typically use a custom car where the instructor has limited controls in the passenger's seat in case things are going really wrong). That way you try to bring the quality of drivers up to that of the instructor, not a cargo cult of family members who might be horrid at driving.
  - astura 8y ago
    And the big thing is dangerous misinformation and misconceptions get passed down without professional instruction - you see it all the time.
- cmurf 8y ago
  You learn bad habits by doing things incorrectly over and and over again too. As a pilot, the rigorousness of aeronautical training compared to the complete lack of training requirement for car driving, is ridiculous to me. The point is you have to learn how to fit into a system, because it's a shared system. But somehow driving, and the daily experience of it is: fuck you, me first. And it shows. It's an adversarial system. I'm really impressed that it works as well as it does, despite being the #1 killer of teenagers, and 40,000 total deaths on the road per year.

by cmurf 8y ago

dsnuh 8y ago

I'm not familiar with licensing requirements in other countries, are they more rigorous?

jdietrich 8y ago
Here in the UK, you need to take a multiple-choice theory test and a practical driving test. The practical test takes about 40 minutes and is conducted on public roads. The pass rate for both the theory and practical test is about 50%. It's not uncommon for learners to fail the practical test several times. You're not required to have professional instruction but the vast majority of people do, because it's extremely difficult to pass the driving test without it. Most instructors recommend 30 to 40 hours of tuition before attempting the test. Learners who are driving on a provisional license prior to passing their test must be accompanied by someone who has held a full license for at least three years. They must display an L-plate on the front and rear of the vehicle and cannot use motorways (freeways) unless they are accompanied by a licensed instructor. It is my understanding that the British process is relatively straightforward by European standards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_the_United_... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720308/drt-statistics-jan-to-mar-2018.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- brohee 8y ago
  Basically the same thing in France.
- dsnuh 8y ago
  That doesn't sound all that different from requirements in CA, save the special license plate tags.

ghaff 8y ago

>Literally no experience required, no driver's education required. Your uncle can teach you how to drive. Driver's ed at least used to be pretty common,in part because it gave a discount for the (expensive) insurance covering younger drivers. I don't see anything special about the typical driver's ed instructor anyway. It's not like the typical driver's ed is some expensive defensive driving course taught by an ex race car driver. Furthermore, the typical system is that someone gets a learners permit first which lets them drive only under a limited set of conditions so they gain experience that way. And, honestly, you gain experience by doing things not taking classes.

wool_gather 8y ago
> you gain experience by doing things not taking classes. Sure, but "experience" doesn't have to mean you're out there on the highway with everyone else. You don't start scuba diving in the actual ocean. You get experience in a pool for a while first.
mjevans 8y ago
The important thing about driver's ed is that it's a /professional/ teaching the foundational experience (they also typically use a custom car where the instructor has limited controls in the passenger's seat in case things are going really wrong). That way you try to bring the quality of drivers up to that of the instructor, not a cargo cult of family members who might be horrid at driving.
- astura 8y ago
  And the big thing is dangerous misinformation and misconceptions get passed down without professional instruction - you see it all the time.
cmurf 8y ago
You learn bad habits by doing things incorrectly over and and over again too. As a pilot, the rigorousness of aeronautical training compared to the complete lack of training requirement for car driving, is ridiculous to me. The point is you have to learn how to fit into a system, because it's a shared system. But somehow driving, and the daily experience of it is: fuck you, me first. And it shows. It's an adversarial system. I'm really impressed that it works as well as it does, despite being the #1 killer of teenagers, and 40,000 total deaths on the road per year.