4 ms·

If that is the case, I think revamping the high school requirements would be a better investment.

jopsen 8y ago
The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned. There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science. There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges..
- eli_gottlieb 8y ago
  Sure, but there's no such thing as a combined education in plant physiology, embedded firmware development, and machine learning, so maybe employers should just get off their high horse and train people. (This is a reference to several jobs posted at MIT and in other Cambridge, MA workplaces on various occasions.)
  - Immortalin 8y ago
    Applied ML on IoT-controlled Psychedelic plant husbandry?
    - eli_gottlieb 8y ago
      Nothing in the ad said it was psychedelic, but yeah, applied deep learning on IoT-controlled plant husbandry. I hope to God they were just going through the motions of a job posting with a candidate in mind, because normally even MIT-related people aren't that blindly entitled about hiring as to label three different specialized skillsets minimum requirements without offering a lot of money.
      - Immortalin 8y ago
        Don't suppose you can send me the job listing?
        eli_gottlieb 8y ago
        Sorry, I saw it last year. I found it via the MIT jobs website, so if there's anything similar at the moment, you should look there to find out.
- labcomputer 8y ago
  That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. My perception (anecdata!) is that helicopter parenting has badgered the faculty such that my niece and nephew have a lower bar than I did for any given letter grade (and that I had it easier than some of my much older cousins). Another point is that HS graduation rates in the United States have been basically flat (after a long, steady increase) since the 1970's [1], despite constant calls to increase it. When more than 9 of 10 people already have HS diplomas; when the economic condition of each student's family is highly predictive of graduation; and when and each school tends to have a fairly homogeneous characteristics, it's hard for me to see how you can raise graduation rates without lowering the bar. Unless you're open to adjusting the economic condition around under-performing schools, of course. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. Since the early 1990s, what was then a fairly advanced college prep track for math seems to have become the baseline standard, and graduation requirements have increased in other ways. Compared to comparably-named classes, grading or presentation may have become less rigorous, but the baseline curriculum is more advanced, not less.
    - StanislavPetrov 8y ago
      I'd have to disagree. My niece attends one of the top-rated high schools in the country. I recently perused her summer reading list and was astonished that the vast majority of them were books for children. Reading comprehension and writing proficiency are much, much lower than they were just a few decades ago, across all levels of schooling.
      - dsnuh 8y ago

The problem is that today's generations are joining companies that are heavily specialized. Unlike previous generations which could learn while the company learned. There are some vocational coding schools, but these won't prepare you to do real computer science. There are some vocational carpentry schools with increased focus on AutoCad and other analytical skills. But these won't equipt you to design bridges..

eli_gottlieb 8y ago
Sure, but there's no such thing as a combined education in plant physiology, embedded firmware development, and machine learning, so maybe employers should just get off their high horse and train people. (This is a reference to several jobs posted at MIT and in other Cambridge, MA workplaces on various occasions.)
- Immortalin 8y ago
  Applied ML on IoT-controlled Psychedelic plant husbandry?
  - eli_gottlieb 8y ago
    Nothing in the ad said it was psychedelic, but yeah, applied deep learning on IoT-controlled plant husbandry. I hope to God they were just going through the motions of a job posting with a candidate in mind, because normally even MIT-related people aren't that blindly entitled about hiring as to label three different specialized skillsets minimum requirements without offering a lot of money.
    - Immortalin 8y ago
      Don't suppose you can send me the job listing?
      - eli_gottlieb 8y ago
        Sorry, I saw it last year. I found it via the MIT jobs website, so if there's anything similar at the moment, you should look there to find out.
labcomputer 8y ago
That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. My perception (anecdata!) is that helicopter parenting has badgered the faculty such that my niece and nephew have a lower bar than I did for any given letter grade (and that I had it easier than some of my much older cousins). Another point is that HS graduation rates in the United States have been basically flat (after a long, steady increase) since the 1970's [1], despite constant calls to increase it. When more than 9 of 10 people already have HS diplomas; when the economic condition of each student's family is highly predictive of graduation; and when and each school tends to have a fairly homogeneous characteristics, it's hard for me to see how you can raise graduation rates without lowering the bar. Unless you're open to adjusting the economic condition around under-performing schools, of course. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > That's true, but it feels like the HS curriculum has gotten easier, too, and that might be part of the reason that a high school diploma isn't valued by employers. Since the early 1990s, what was then a fairly advanced college prep track for math seems to have become the baseline standard, and graduation requirements have increased in other ways. Compared to comparably-named classes, grading or presentation may have become less rigorous, but the baseline curriculum is more advanced, not less.
  - StanislavPetrov 8y ago
    I'd have to disagree. My niece attends one of the top-rated high schools in the country. I recently perused her summer reading list and was astonished that the vast majority of them were books for children. Reading comprehension and writing proficiency are much, much lower than they were just a few decades ago, across all levels of schooling.
    - dsnuh 8y ago