5 ms·

There are a ton of reasons. - Adolescence lasts longer (until mid-20s) which means that people don't grow up so fast anymore. Why? Because of the wealth of the

There are a ton of reasons. - Adolescence lasts longer (until mid-20s) which means that people don't grow up so fast anymore. Why? Because of the wealth of the societies they live in. - More people study. Many are around 25-27 when they finally start to work. - Real wages didn't increase although inflation did. - The workforce is divided: Too many marketing experts, but a shortage of craftsmen. Too many people want jobs where they just sit in an office. - Some millennials have seen that their parents work insanely hard; they don't want to repeat their mistakes and miss important aspects of life. They value their time more and accept compromises in their salaries. - Many young people lack money management skills. Delayed gratification is very hard to learn if you're used to a certain type of living. - Real estate gets used as an investment opportunity which drives housing prices up. This wasn't so drastic when other more profitable investment opportunities existed. - The job market is professionalized and more efficient, degrees get valued highly but lack their former signal effect because everyone has a degree. Therefore it's harder to find good opportunities. You need more skills and more luck to succeed in this system. We can't just say "The previous generation had more", we have to analyze thoroughly why they could pay for a mortgage in their early 20s and how their lifestyles differed. I'm around 20y/o in Europe and I think $60k is a low salary for someone in their 30s (with work experience of 10-15 years). I can make $10k in a good month without any degree. Maybe millennials should learn to negotiate better and demonstrate real business value to their employers. I know many people who make €7-15k (which is a top-10%/top-5% salary in Germany) who are in their 20s or early 30s. I think many don't understand how money works and that money is just a number. So few people think strategically about their salaries and just accept their circumstances.

heckerhut 8y ago
well said.
antpls 8y ago
> I think many don't understand how money works and that money is just a number. So few people think strategically about their salaries and just accept their circumstances. You should be more humble. You are on an "hacker" website. Did someone say we can't hack money? If you earn 10k a month, that's great, what about sharing it among the people who didn't have the same luck than you? People aren't born with the same information environment and legacy. Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot.
- mockingbirdy 8y ago
  > what about sharing it among the people who didn't have the same luck than you? That's one big thing what taxes are for: To redistribute wealth. And I have employees which earn good money. I don't know what you expect from me. > Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot. That's why a solid social system is so important. It gives us the room to take risks because we can be sure that we can get food, shelter and healthcare. See [1]. [1]: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU
  - mockingbirdy 8y ago
    > Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot. I would like to know what you mean specifically. When you are jobless, the German system gives you enough to rent an apartment and eat something. It's not luxurious, but it's better than those anti-social systems like those in the US. You don't have to worry about getting enough food. When these basic needs are met, you are free to open your mind. Most people don't - even those that have jobs - and I think that's pretty sad. Many people accept the pointless work and shitty environments because the fear of social decline is so big in their heads. I think most of those points you talk about can be changed on the psychological level. Money doesn't necessarily change this, it's a mindset.
    - antpls 8y ago
      When I talk about environment and legacy, I talk about your parents, your grand-parents and your grand-grand-parents. If you are born Germans and your parents are Germans since generations, there are higher chances they teached you how the system works since the first day. It's probable they accumulated a social network of friendly lawyers, politicians, or any other persons the system already rewarded, and told you what to do to make sure you keep your privileges and protect the system. Trusting the system when you are a foreigner is way more difficult, especially when you know no one. You can't compare the lifestyle of someone who lives with $10k/month with someone who is clueless and, because of lack of information and ressources, cannot defend his/her own human rights. We are not born equal, if your parents are richer than mines, you are probably privileged before we even proved our skills.
blattimwind 8y ago
These are some good points, but people still compare themselves to the prior generation and notice, that while they have a whole bunch of luxuries their parents never had [1], that they also can't afford other luxuries. Like housing. My parents had a huge house and property by the time they turned 30. While some people still buy houses in their 20s, they're usually small shit houses with tiny properties. [1] The whole computer thing, generally much better healthcare, much better daycare offerings if you're the sort of person that wants or has to give her children away, etc.; or even things like being able to buy a used car for 5k with excellent interior, crash safety and gimmicks. (But you of course can't afford to fuel it, so maybe that's a moot point).
- mockingbirdy 8y ago
  > My parents had a huge house and property by the time they turned 30. How much was it? You can make 3500€ pre-tax with a bachelors degree in many fields. That's around 2200€ after taxes. Two people can live comfortably with ~2500€ and lay away 1900€ a month. You will not be able to buy a property in a big city, but after 10 years you'll be able to pay for a small house. And you even get a tax break for it. Today it's uncommon to be a couple that takes a mortgage together - young people don't really trust relationships in the same way anymore. This halves their net worth to buy a house. I think stable relationships are extremely important for the wealth of our parents. Many older people are now broke because they've split up with their partners. So if you want to have the same wealth, you also have to find a partner who's up for this challenge.
  - blattimwind 8y ago
    > Two people can Like many, they did this on a single income.
    - mockingbirdy 8y ago
      Interesting. The inflation-adjusted incomes (median for a more accurate analysis) stayed pretty much the same in the US [1], but the purchasing power dropped. > For example, the Census Bureau reports that the average price of a new home in July 1994 was $144,400. According to the inflation calculator, that price today should be $232,141. The same report places the average sale price for July 2014 at $339,100, however, more than 46% higher than the price when accounting for inflation alone. The housing and living costs are higher today. It seems that capitalists are chasing inelastic demands (people can't really defend themselves there). I can understand why they do this, but politics should use proper regulations to enable normal people to buy their houses. The system seems to be corrupted at those places. [1]: https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2017/09/19/u-s-household-incomes-a-50-year-perspective https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2017/09/1... [2]: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/what-does-current-cost-living-compare-20-years-ago.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/what-does-cu...

heckerhut 8y ago

well said.

antpls 8y ago

> I think many don't understand how money works and that money is just a number. So few people think strategically about their salaries and just accept their circumstances. You should be more humble. You are on an "hacker" website. Did someone say we can't hack money? If you earn 10k a month, that's great, what about sharing it among the people who didn't have the same luck than you? People aren't born with the same information environment and legacy. Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot.

mockingbirdy 8y ago
> what about sharing it among the people who didn't have the same luck than you? That's one big thing what taxes are for: To redistribute wealth. And I have employees which earn good money. I don't know what you expect from me. > Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot. That's why a solid social system is so important. It gives us the room to take risks because we can be sure that we can get food, shelter and healthcare. See [1]. [1]: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU
- mockingbirdy 8y ago
  > Some people can afford to take risks and earn even more while some simply cannot. I would like to know what you mean specifically. When you are jobless, the German system gives you enough to rent an apartment and eat something. It's not luxurious, but it's better than those anti-social systems like those in the US. You don't have to worry about getting enough food. When these basic needs are met, you are free to open your mind. Most people don't - even those that have jobs - and I think that's pretty sad. Many people accept the pointless work and shitty environments because the fear of social decline is so big in their heads. I think most of those points you talk about can be changed on the psychological level. Money doesn't necessarily change this, it's a mindset.
  - antpls 8y ago
    When I talk about environment and legacy, I talk about your parents, your grand-parents and your grand-grand-parents. If you are born Germans and your parents are Germans since generations, there are higher chances they teached you how the system works since the first day. It's probable they accumulated a social network of friendly lawyers, politicians, or any other persons the system already rewarded, and told you what to do to make sure you keep your privileges and protect the system. Trusting the system when you are a foreigner is way more difficult, especially when you know no one. You can't compare the lifestyle of someone who lives with $10k/month with someone who is clueless and, because of lack of information and ressources, cannot defend his/her own human rights. We are not born equal, if your parents are richer than mines, you are probably privileged before we even proved our skills.

blattimwind 8y ago

These are some good points, but people still compare themselves to the prior generation and notice, that while they have a whole bunch of luxuries their parents never had [1], that they also can't afford other luxuries. Like housing. My parents had a huge house and property by the time they turned 30. While some people still buy houses in their 20s, they're usually small shit houses with tiny properties. [1] The whole computer thing, generally much better healthcare, much better daycare offerings if you're the sort of person that wants or has to give her children away, etc.; or even things like being able to buy a used car for 5k with excellent interior, crash safety and gimmicks. (But you of course can't afford to fuel it, so maybe that's a moot point).

mockingbirdy 8y ago
> My parents had a huge house and property by the time they turned 30. How much was it? You can make 3500€ pre-tax with a bachelors degree in many fields. That's around 2200€ after taxes. Two people can live comfortably with ~2500€ and lay away 1900€ a month. You will not be able to buy a property in a big city, but after 10 years you'll be able to pay for a small house. And you even get a tax break for it. Today it's uncommon to be a couple that takes a mortgage together - young people don't really trust relationships in the same way anymore. This halves their net worth to buy a house. I think stable relationships are extremely important for the wealth of our parents. Many older people are now broke because they've split up with their partners. So if you want to have the same wealth, you also have to find a partner who's up for this challenge.
- blattimwind 8y ago
  > Two people can Like many, they did this on a single income.
  - mockingbirdy 8y ago
    Interesting. The inflation-adjusted incomes (median for a more accurate analysis) stayed pretty much the same in the US [1], but the purchasing power dropped. > For example, the Census Bureau reports that the average price of a new home in July 1994 was $144,400. According to the inflation calculator, that price today should be $232,141. The same report places the average sale price for July 2014 at $339,100, however, more than 46% higher than the price when accounting for inflation alone. The housing and living costs are higher today. It seems that capitalists are chasing inelastic demands (people can't really defend themselves there). I can understand why they do this, but politics should use proper regulations to enable normal people to buy their houses. The system seems to be corrupted at those places. [1]: https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2017/09/19/u-s-household-incomes-a-50-year-perspective https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2017/09/1... [2]: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/what-does-current-cost-living-compare-20-years-ago.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/what-does-cu...