5 ms·

Let's not be hyperbolic here. Serving food that doesn't happen to contain meat isn't forcing you to be vegetarian any more than serving only soft drinks at an e

Let's not be hyperbolic here. Serving food that doesn't happen to contain meat isn't forcing you to be vegetarian any more than serving only soft drinks at an event would be forcing you to be a teetotaler.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Is it okay if my business only allows the expensing of meat, and refuses to allow carbohydrates for health reasons? EDIT: Fair enough! Not contrarian, just finding the line. What interesting times we live in.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  Of course. Though you might find it gets even more resistance. Plenty of people eat burgers, but almost all of them would expect it to be served on a bun, maybe with a condiment or two. I hear french fries are also popular.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
thaumasiotes 8y ago
On the other hand, a policy of "you can expense vegetarian meals, but only vegetarian meals" is forcing you to be vegetarian at a much higher and more obnoxious level than that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- vfc1 8y ago
  Employees are not being forced to become vegetarians, they can still eat fish, dairy and eggs and expense their meals. They can even choose to go outside and eat meat, they have freedom of choice.
  - skinnymuch 8y ago
    But dairy and eggs are part of a normal vegetarian diet. You worded it as if they are not.
  - apple4ever 8y ago
    They are being forced if they don't want to or cannot afford to buy meat.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Pushing. Not forcing. I mean, I'm pretty sure that most jobs that come with expense accounts also happen to come with a decent amount of, what do you call it, income. I sort of doubt that this sort of policy is headed to the per diem world.
whack 8y ago
That's a pretty great analogy. Lots of businesses have a no-alcohol policy. No one even bats an eye when it's mentioned. I hardly see anyone complaining about such companies pushing a lifestyle agenda.
- curioussavage 8y ago
  Alcohol is not a good example. Alcohol at work causes so many problems.
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    Does it really? I can get alcohol at two or three, and sometimes more, work events in any given week. Some teams have beer fridges. The sky doesn't fall. (to be clear, I fully agree with GP)
    - andrenth 8y ago
      Do you also drive home afterwards?
      - joshuamorton 8y ago
        No, I don't drive to work as a general rule. Nor do I drink at work, as a general rule. I certainly wouldn't do both. I'm a responsible human, as are my coworkers.
  - null000 8y ago
    Some people can't handle alcohol. Others can usually handle alcohol, but it really only takes one time to be an issue. Get large enough, and serving alcohol at company events guarantees at least one, sometimes more, HR headaches, statistically speaking. I'm not a huge fan of a company changing its behavior because it wants to avoid risks that are just inherent in dealing with people (the logical conclusion is to pretty much treat all your employees like children to avoid anyone causing trouble) but I can at least respect it if they're up front about their motivations.
- 8y ago
Waterluvian 8y ago
Refusing to serve meat == refusing to serve vegetables. Imagine if the inverse were true. People would flip. All I want to convey is that I believe eating an omnivorous diet is an equal dietary preference to eating a herbivorous one. Deserving of the same protections, if any.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
downandout 8y ago
Serving food that doesn't happen to contain meat isn't forcing you to be vegetarian Sure it is. There will be situations where employees have no choice but to eat company-sponsored food. Mandatory working lunches, dinner with potential clients (I’d love for them to take me to dinner as a potential client/partner and tell me I can’t order a steak...), etc. In those situations, they are indeed “forcing you to be a vegetarian”.
- munificent 8y ago
  That's a real stretch. If the company refused to pay for an escort, they aren't forcing me to be celibate. They aren't affecting my identity they are just choosing not to pay for a certain act.
  - throwawayou812 8y ago
    I dare say this is a horrible comparison. There are no circumstances under which employees are expected, or even required, to have sex at work (presumably at least not at a mainstream tech startup). There are, however, many situations where employees would be expected/required to eat company-sponsored meals.
  - null000 8y ago
    That's just a completely disingenuous comparison. It's pretty normal for companies to pay for work-related food, just as it's pretty normal for you to pay for food you eat on your own time. It's pretty not-normal for companies to pay for escorts, just like it's pretty not-normal for you to pay for escorts on your own time. Some people pay for escorts, but it's pretty well outside social norms, and I can't imagine a business situation requiring an escort anyway.
    - somecontext 8y ago
      > a business situation requiring an escort https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17453554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17453554
    - 8y ago
seorphates 8y ago
I don't know. If they're not going to expense your meals because you're away on official business and chose wrong then I'm not sure I'd be down with that. As for on premise and coordinated business events, sure, I'm down with that. Business trips where you're someplace new well away from home "if you want us to pay for a meal while we send you to this place then no meat" is.. a little too close to too personal. That seems mean and self-righteous. I don't think I wouldn't be interested in weWork even were I a vegetarian. We can all try or not. Screw coercion, especially in excess.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Is it okay if my business only allows the expensing of meat, and refuses to allow carbohydrates for health reasons? EDIT: Fair enough! Not contrarian, just finding the line. What interesting times we live in.

bunderbunder 8y ago
Of course. Though you might find it gets even more resistance. Plenty of people eat burgers, but almost all of them would expect it to be served on a bun, maybe with a condiment or two. I hear french fries are also popular.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

thaumasiotes 8y ago

On the other hand, a policy of "you can expense vegetarian meals, but only vegetarian meals" is forcing you to be vegetarian at a much higher and more obnoxious level than that.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
vfc1 8y ago
Employees are not being forced to become vegetarians, they can still eat fish, dairy and eggs and expense their meals. They can even choose to go outside and eat meat, they have freedom of choice.
- skinnymuch 8y ago
  But dairy and eggs are part of a normal vegetarian diet. You worded it as if they are not.
- apple4ever 8y ago
  They are being forced if they don't want to or cannot afford to buy meat.
maxerickson 8y ago
Pushing. Not forcing. I mean, I'm pretty sure that most jobs that come with expense accounts also happen to come with a decent amount of, what do you call it, income. I sort of doubt that this sort of policy is headed to the per diem world.

whack 8y ago

That's a pretty great analogy. Lots of businesses have a no-alcohol policy. No one even bats an eye when it's mentioned. I hardly see anyone complaining about such companies pushing a lifestyle agenda.

curioussavage 8y ago
Alcohol is not a good example. Alcohol at work causes so many problems.
- joshuamorton 8y ago
  Does it really? I can get alcohol at two or three, and sometimes more, work events in any given week. Some teams have beer fridges. The sky doesn't fall. (to be clear, I fully agree with GP)
  - andrenth 8y ago
    Do you also drive home afterwards?
    - joshuamorton 8y ago
      No, I don't drive to work as a general rule. Nor do I drink at work, as a general rule. I certainly wouldn't do both. I'm a responsible human, as are my coworkers.
- null000 8y ago
  Some people can't handle alcohol. Others can usually handle alcohol, but it really only takes one time to be an issue. Get large enough, and serving alcohol at company events guarantees at least one, sometimes more, HR headaches, statistically speaking. I'm not a huge fan of a company changing its behavior because it wants to avoid risks that are just inherent in dealing with people (the logical conclusion is to pretty much treat all your employees like children to avoid anyone causing trouble) but I can at least respect it if they're up front about their motivations.
8y ago

Waterluvian 8y ago

Refusing to serve meat == refusing to serve vegetables. Imagine if the inverse were true. People would flip. All I want to convey is that I believe eating an omnivorous diet is an equal dietary preference to eating a herbivorous one. Deserving of the same protections, if any.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

downandout 8y ago

Serving food that doesn't happen to contain meat isn't forcing you to be vegetarian Sure it is. There will be situations where employees have no choice but to eat company-sponsored food. Mandatory working lunches, dinner with potential clients (I’d love for them to take me to dinner as a potential client/partner and tell me I can’t order a steak...), etc. In those situations, they are indeed “forcing you to be a vegetarian”.

munificent 8y ago
That's a real stretch. If the company refused to pay for an escort, they aren't forcing me to be celibate. They aren't affecting my identity they are just choosing not to pay for a certain act.
- throwawayou812 8y ago
  I dare say this is a horrible comparison. There are no circumstances under which employees are expected, or even required, to have sex at work (presumably at least not at a mainstream tech startup). There are, however, many situations where employees would be expected/required to eat company-sponsored meals.
- null000 8y ago
  That's just a completely disingenuous comparison. It's pretty normal for companies to pay for work-related food, just as it's pretty normal for you to pay for food you eat on your own time. It's pretty not-normal for companies to pay for escorts, just like it's pretty not-normal for you to pay for escorts on your own time. Some people pay for escorts, but it's pretty well outside social norms, and I can't imagine a business situation requiring an escort anyway.
  - somecontext 8y ago
    > a business situation requiring an escort https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17453554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17453554
  - 8y ago

seorphates 8y ago

I don't know. If they're not going to expense your meals because you're away on official business and chose wrong then I'm not sure I'd be down with that. As for on premise and coordinated business events, sure, I'm down with that. Business trips where you're someplace new well away from home "if you want us to pay for a meal while we send you to this place then no meat" is.. a little too close to too personal. That seems mean and self-righteous. I don't think I wouldn't be interested in weWork even were I a vegetarian. We can all try or not. Screw coercion, especially in excess.