3 ms·

The keto and zerocarb (carnivore diet) communities on reddit are all pointing out the fact that 46% by volume of the sample was fat, indicating he gained 60%+ b

The keto and zerocarb (carnivore diet) communities on reddit are all pointing out the fact that 46% by volume of the sample was fat, indicating he gained 60%+ by calorie macro of energy from fat (and a large percentage of proteins). There is a compelling argument being made now that humans are more carnivore than omnivore for most of our history (10,000 of agriculture is blip on the radar for our species) and that we ate the whole animal. Yes, we can eat anything, but did we. And which food sources are we most adapted for? Hence The Omnivores Dilemma ... (good book)

nkrisc 8y ago
It's not mentioned in The Guardian article but is mentioned in this one from Ars Technica that he also had atherosclerosis, something his high fat diet likely contributed to. I'm not 100% sold on trying to replicate the diet and lifestyle of people who probably did not live past what we now consider middle age. Particularly if I'm not living in the high reaches of the Alps. https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/otzi-the-icemans-last-meal-shows-how-copper-age-people-ate-on-the-run/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/otzi-the-icemans-las...
- cgh 8y ago
  As has been pointed out elsewhere[1], atherosclerosis is largely a genetic condition and is not necessarily related to a high-fat diet. "In the new study, Zink and his colleagues found that Ötzi had several gene variants associated with cardiovascular disease, including one on the ninth chromosome that is strongly tied to heart troubles, the researchers reported today (July 30) in the journal Global Heart."[2] Fun fact: Otzi also had Lyme disease. Also, there is no evidence that Otzi's people died young because of their diets. He was 45, so approaching middle age, and died while making a high mountain traverse with an arrow in his back. I would bet anything he was physically sturdier and, with modern medical care, healthier than nearly everyone posting here. [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/02/iceman-was-medical-mess http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/02/iceman-was-medical-me... 2] https://www.livescience.com/47114-otzi-had-heart-disease-genes.html https://www.livescience.com/47114-otzi-had-heart-disease-gen...
- ameixaseca 8y ago
  Likely or likely not? More recent evidence points to high carb - not high fat - as the real cause. Mcmuffins are higher in carbs than fats, by the way. Also, infant/child mortality was much higher at that time - if you count people that lived past the 30s life expectancy was likely not that different from nowadays.
clumsysmurf 8y ago
The researchers mention in other sources: "Interestingly adipose fat, most likely from the ibex, made up about half of the stomach contents. The team says this amount was unexpected, but it makes sense given he was living in such a hostile climate." "The high and cold environment is particularly challenging for the human physiology and requires optimal nutrient supply to avoid rapid starvation and energy loss," says Albert Zink, an author of the study. "The Iceman seemed to have been fully aware that fat represents an excellent energy source."
acqq 8y ago
The actual paper mentions: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)30703-6 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)... "major proportion of plant reads belong to the species Pteridium aquilinum subsp. aquilinum and to members of the genus Triticum " "the Triticum reads were more specifically assigned to chloroplast genomes of Triticum monococcum (einkorn) and Triticum urartu" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkorn_wheat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkorn_wheat Wheat. It seem the Iceman not only ate deer mean but also... wheat, so probably some kind of bread. Also, for the context: the Iceman lived "between 3400 and 3100 BCE." It can be that he lived at the same time as Egypt already wrote about its first pharaohs (c. 3150 BCE)! And Egypt's key for success for millennia was in its... wheat production. Moreover, the "Iceman" got frozen in ice by accident, but at that time the last ice age was also over for cca 5000 years.
- pvaldes 8y ago
  You can make a bread using braken flour. Is toxic at long term, but canker is not a problem if you are in a hurry and do not plan to live more than 50 years in any case. Probably they would combine Triticum and Pteridium together making a more palatable product. Many things could point to stolen food and a harsh conditions. He was probably desperate for food. For a human eating fat regularly, he was very slim.
feral 8y ago
> (10,000 of agriculture is blip on the radar for our species) Just to point out, those 10k years of agriculture are actually the most recent 10k years, with potentially huge selection pressure for periods during that time.

nkrisc 8y ago

It's not mentioned in The Guardian article but is mentioned in this one from Ars Technica that he also had atherosclerosis, something his high fat diet likely contributed to. I'm not 100% sold on trying to replicate the diet and lifestyle of people who probably did not live past what we now consider middle age. Particularly if I'm not living in the high reaches of the Alps. https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/otzi-the-icemans-last-meal-shows-how-copper-age-people-ate-on-the-run/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/otzi-the-icemans-las...

cgh 8y ago
As has been pointed out elsewhere[1], atherosclerosis is largely a genetic condition and is not necessarily related to a high-fat diet. "In the new study, Zink and his colleagues found that Ötzi had several gene variants associated with cardiovascular disease, including one on the ninth chromosome that is strongly tied to heart troubles, the researchers reported today (July 30) in the journal Global Heart."[2] Fun fact: Otzi also had Lyme disease. Also, there is no evidence that Otzi's people died young because of their diets. He was 45, so approaching middle age, and died while making a high mountain traverse with an arrow in his back. I would bet anything he was physically sturdier and, with modern medical care, healthier than nearly everyone posting here. [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/02/iceman-was-medical-mess http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/02/iceman-was-medical-me... 2] https://www.livescience.com/47114-otzi-had-heart-disease-genes.html https://www.livescience.com/47114-otzi-had-heart-disease-gen...
ameixaseca 8y ago
Likely or likely not? More recent evidence points to high carb - not high fat - as the real cause. Mcmuffins are higher in carbs than fats, by the way. Also, infant/child mortality was much higher at that time - if you count people that lived past the 30s life expectancy was likely not that different from nowadays.

clumsysmurf 8y ago

The researchers mention in other sources: "Interestingly adipose fat, most likely from the ibex, made up about half of the stomach contents. The team says this amount was unexpected, but it makes sense given he was living in such a hostile climate." "The high and cold environment is particularly challenging for the human physiology and requires optimal nutrient supply to avoid rapid starvation and energy loss," says Albert Zink, an author of the study. "The Iceman seemed to have been fully aware that fat represents an excellent energy source."

acqq 8y ago

The actual paper mentions: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)30703-6 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)... "major proportion of plant reads belong to the species Pteridium aquilinum subsp. aquilinum and to members of the genus Triticum " "the Triticum reads were more specifically assigned to chloroplast genomes of Triticum monococcum (einkorn) and Triticum urartu" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkorn_wheat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkorn_wheat Wheat. It seem the Iceman not only ate deer mean but also... wheat, so probably some kind of bread. Also, for the context: the Iceman lived "between 3400 and 3100 BCE." It can be that he lived at the same time as Egypt already wrote about its first pharaohs (c. 3150 BCE)! And Egypt's key for success for millennia was in its... wheat production. Moreover, the "Iceman" got frozen in ice by accident, but at that time the last ice age was also over for cca 5000 years.

pvaldes 8y ago
You can make a bread using braken flour. Is toxic at long term, but canker is not a problem if you are in a hurry and do not plan to live more than 50 years in any case. Probably they would combine Triticum and Pteridium together making a more palatable product. Many things could point to stolen food and a harsh conditions. He was probably desperate for food. For a human eating fat regularly, he was very slim.

feral 8y ago

> (10,000 of agriculture is blip on the radar for our species) Just to point out, those 10k years of agriculture are actually the most recent 10k years, with potentially huge selection pressure for periods during that time.