4 ms·

The claim that President Trump is an anti-American, Russian agent is insane. [added] I will not provide any reply or assistance if you further promote, hypothe

by mkempe 8y ago

The claim that President Trump is an anti-American, Russian agent is insane. [added] I will not provide any reply or assistance if you further promote, hypothesize, or engage in crazy conspiracy theories.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
myko 8y ago
His policies are fairly anti-western alliance, which has defined America for nearly a century. It's unlikely he's a Russian agent but he certainly seems to be influenced by at least one. His son definitely attempted to work with the Russian government to help get Trump elected, even though he knew they were doing something illegal.
- anfedorov 8y ago
  At least some of that seems in the past. Presently, Schindler has good coverage of the details here [1], which details what a generous reading of mkempe's point is trying to say -- let's not go over-board. 1. http://observer.com/2018/07/putin-conflict-poland-ukraine-nato/ http://observer.com/2018/07/putin-conflict-poland-ukraine-na...
  - myko 8y ago
    Is it overboard to consider Paul Manafort a Russian asset? He seems to have influenced Trump and his governing style pretty drastically. I don't think anything in my comment was particularly inflammatory.
    - anfedorov 8y ago
      I haven't read all the indictments and so might be wrong, but at this point I think it would be speculation. Time will almost certainly tell for sure. The wikipedia definition of the term seems easy to agree on — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_(intelligence) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_(intelligence)
      - myko 8y ago
        Manafort's actions in Ukraine paint him as a Russian asset in my mind (http://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/ http://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukr...). You're correct that this doesn't prove he was acting on behalf of Russia when he offered to work on Trump's campaign for free though. That is speculation on my part, but seems fairly likely.
wongarsu 8y ago
Hypothetically, if a Russian agent became President of the USA, what would you expect him to do? Try to withdraw from as many international treaties as possible? Insult foreign heads of state and sabotage America's relationship with their allies? Refuse to enact sanctions against Russia? I don't think Trump is a Russian agent, but I wouldn't call the idea crazy
- dwheeler 8y ago
  If the agent is known to be an agent, Congress can quickly impeach him. During an election, all parties are highly incentivized to find dirt on the others, which helps increase the likelihood of discovery. No system is perfect, but directly voting in an agent is generally unlikely.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    But that only works if Congress has an incentive to vote to impeach. If we're in a hypothetical situation where we know the president to be a foreign agent, assuming that people in Congress are not similarly compromised, at the very least they are members of the same political party as the president. Impeaching one of their own would have political consequences, and Trump's approval rating still shows a pretty decent base who like him. It would be basically political suicide for any Republican to vote to impeach because many Americans don't believe Trump is an agent, don't believe he did anything wrong, and still agree with his policies and agenda. Congress has the ability to impeach, but not the will.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > If the agent is known to be an agent, Congress can quickly impeach him. Of course, for members of his party concerned about the danger such public knowledge would do to their own personal political position and their party, the incentive if they know he is a foreign agent is to actively blur and distract from the issue to prevent the public from getting a clear understanding. EDIT: This might result, say, in the bizarre spectacle of Congress members and of that party continuously attacking the credibility of individuals and institutions which have traditionally favored (or who are members of) that party simply because they are faithfully pursuing (or insufficiently sabotaging) an investigation of the operation in which the President is involved.

by mkempe 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

myko 8y ago

His policies are fairly anti-western alliance, which has defined America for nearly a century. It's unlikely he's a Russian agent but he certainly seems to be influenced by at least one. His son definitely attempted to work with the Russian government to help get Trump elected, even though he knew they were doing something illegal.

anfedorov 8y ago
At least some of that seems in the past. Presently, Schindler has good coverage of the details here [1], which details what a generous reading of mkempe's point is trying to say -- let's not go over-board. 1. http://observer.com/2018/07/putin-conflict-poland-ukraine-nato/ http://observer.com/2018/07/putin-conflict-poland-ukraine-na...
- myko 8y ago
  Is it overboard to consider Paul Manafort a Russian asset? He seems to have influenced Trump and his governing style pretty drastically. I don't think anything in my comment was particularly inflammatory.
  - anfedorov 8y ago
    I haven't read all the indictments and so might be wrong, but at this point I think it would be speculation. Time will almost certainly tell for sure. The wikipedia definition of the term seems easy to agree on — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_(intelligence) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_(intelligence)
    - myko 8y ago
      Manafort's actions in Ukraine paint him as a Russian asset in my mind (http://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/ http://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukr...). You're correct that this doesn't prove he was acting on behalf of Russia when he offered to work on Trump's campaign for free though. That is speculation on my part, but seems fairly likely.

wongarsu 8y ago

Hypothetically, if a Russian agent became President of the USA, what would you expect him to do? Try to withdraw from as many international treaties as possible? Insult foreign heads of state and sabotage America's relationship with their allies? Refuse to enact sanctions against Russia? I don't think Trump is a Russian agent, but I wouldn't call the idea crazy

dwheeler 8y ago
If the agent is known to be an agent, Congress can quickly impeach him. During an election, all parties are highly incentivized to find dirt on the others, which helps increase the likelihood of discovery. No system is perfect, but directly voting in an agent is generally unlikely.
- freehunter 8y ago
  But that only works if Congress has an incentive to vote to impeach. If we're in a hypothetical situation where we know the president to be a foreign agent, assuming that people in Congress are not similarly compromised, at the very least they are members of the same political party as the president. Impeaching one of their own would have political consequences, and Trump's approval rating still shows a pretty decent base who like him. It would be basically political suicide for any Republican to vote to impeach because many Americans don't believe Trump is an agent, don't believe he did anything wrong, and still agree with his policies and agenda. Congress has the ability to impeach, but not the will.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > If the agent is known to be an agent, Congress can quickly impeach him. Of course, for members of his party concerned about the danger such public knowledge would do to their own personal political position and their party, the incentive if they know he is a foreign agent is to actively blur and distract from the issue to prevent the public from getting a clear understanding. EDIT: This might result, say, in the bizarre spectacle of Congress members and of that party continuously attacking the credibility of individuals and institutions which have traditionally favored (or who are members of) that party simply because they are faithfully pursuing (or insufficiently sabotaging) an investigation of the operation in which the President is involved.