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It's expensive in Manhattan but it's affordable nearby. It's still possible to buy an apartment in Jackson Heights for $200k and take the F train to work. In t

by rcpt 8y ago

It's expensive in Manhattan but it's affordable nearby. It's still possible to buy an apartment in Jackson Heights for $200k and take the F train to work. In the Bay Area it's expensive near job centers but it's still expensive 40 miles away. The sprawling mess is too low density to sensibly cover with trains so poor people end up with insane highway commutes.

Retric 8y ago
That's still expensive. Anacostia DC has apartments for 90k despite people paying 4+x as much to commute into DC from the suburbs. However, those prices are very much on the rise. SV prices are limited largely by geography and local parks. Having less land area available for development relative to commute distances drives up prices on top of other issues.
- rcpt 8y ago
  I don't understand your point here. It sounds like you are saying that Anacostia is cheap, dense, and close to jobs and that there's also a demand for luxury housing farther away. That all sounds reasonable to me. In SV we don't have cheap housing close to jobs. I argue this is because we don't have dense housing.
  - Retric 8y ago
    My point was markets are complex and 200k is not cheap. Anacostia is an example of less expensive, but also not cheap. You can get a 'cheap' condo in much of the US for 35k. However, Anacostia is not staying that way prices are very much on the rise, became larger forces are at work. SV does not have cheap housing close to jobs largely due to geographic issues. It has a tiny strip of land that can be developed so all of it is going to be expensive. On a block by block basis low density is driving prices down, while on a regional basis lack of housing anywhere drives prices up.
    - rcpt 8y ago
      I'm still not following you here. Sure, housing is cheap in and around Detroit or wherever but you explicitly requested we discuss Manhattan. Now, in Manhattan the city center is expensive. However, very near the city center, housing can be affordable while still having a reasonable commute. This is because of density. > SV does not have cheap housing close to jobs largely due to geographic issues. It has a tiny strip of land that can be developed so all of it is going to be expensive. You are totally wrong here. The housing is expensive due to undersupply which is brought about by restrictions on zoning. There is a huge amount of land to build on but zoning laws require that most of the land here be used for detached single family homes.
      - Retric 8y ago
        > The housing is expensive due to undersupply I agree that it's a massive factor, but it's just one factor among many. Look at a satellite map of the area, in the middle you have the bay which not only takes up space but also chokes traffic. West you have the ocean, and north is again limited by the bay. South and east you have mountains and parks which limit where you could build transit or housing. For comparison look at D.C. it's zoned to be low to mid density, and has terrible roads. But becase people can commute from a huge area to the hart of the city it's prices are not insane. Further, many office buildings clump up in various areas around the city. That can't really happen to SV which props up land value.
Zach_the_Lizard 8y ago
> It's still possible to buy an apartment in Jackson Heights for $200k and take the F train to work It's possible to find a listing for an old studio apartment in Jackson Heights, possibly with an existing tenant you'll have to evict, and possibly with a long walk to the train. Throw in the condo fee ($300+ per month maybe?) and you've got yourself a deal. At ~$400 / square foot that's relatively pricey. I think typical construction costs are like $125 - $150 / square foot, so this could be a $80k or less free standing house in a truly cheap region.
- rcpt 8y ago
  Here's a 2 bedroom for $199k ($240 per square ft): https://www.redfin.com/NY/Unknown/112-50-Northern-Blvd-11368/unit-6B/home/113180232 https://www.redfin.com/NY/Unknown/112-50-Northern-Blvd-11368... Try getting anything like that near public transportation that gets you to work in Silicon Valley. But my point isn't that it's cheap, it's that it's relatively cheap compared to Manhattan while still being close to the city.

by rcpt 8y ago

Retric 8y ago

That's still expensive. Anacostia DC has apartments for 90k despite people paying 4+x as much to commute into DC from the suburbs. However, those prices are very much on the rise. SV prices are limited largely by geography and local parks. Having less land area available for development relative to commute distances drives up prices on top of other issues.

rcpt 8y ago
I don't understand your point here. It sounds like you are saying that Anacostia is cheap, dense, and close to jobs and that there's also a demand for luxury housing farther away. That all sounds reasonable to me. In SV we don't have cheap housing close to jobs. I argue this is because we don't have dense housing.
- Retric 8y ago
  My point was markets are complex and 200k is not cheap. Anacostia is an example of less expensive, but also not cheap. You can get a 'cheap' condo in much of the US for 35k. However, Anacostia is not staying that way prices are very much on the rise, became larger forces are at work. SV does not have cheap housing close to jobs largely due to geographic issues. It has a tiny strip of land that can be developed so all of it is going to be expensive. On a block by block basis low density is driving prices down, while on a regional basis lack of housing anywhere drives prices up.
  - rcpt 8y ago
    I'm still not following you here. Sure, housing is cheap in and around Detroit or wherever but you explicitly requested we discuss Manhattan. Now, in Manhattan the city center is expensive. However, very near the city center, housing can be affordable while still having a reasonable commute. This is because of density. > SV does not have cheap housing close to jobs largely due to geographic issues. It has a tiny strip of land that can be developed so all of it is going to be expensive. You are totally wrong here. The housing is expensive due to undersupply which is brought about by restrictions on zoning. There is a huge amount of land to build on but zoning laws require that most of the land here be used for detached single family homes.
    - Retric 8y ago
      > The housing is expensive due to undersupply I agree that it's a massive factor, but it's just one factor among many. Look at a satellite map of the area, in the middle you have the bay which not only takes up space but also chokes traffic. West you have the ocean, and north is again limited by the bay. South and east you have mountains and parks which limit where you could build transit or housing. For comparison look at D.C. it's zoned to be low to mid density, and has terrible roads. But becase people can commute from a huge area to the hart of the city it's prices are not insane. Further, many office buildings clump up in various areas around the city. That can't really happen to SV which props up land value.

Zach_the_Lizard 8y ago

> It's still possible to buy an apartment in Jackson Heights for $200k and take the F train to work It's possible to find a listing for an old studio apartment in Jackson Heights, possibly with an existing tenant you'll have to evict, and possibly with a long walk to the train. Throw in the condo fee ($300+ per month maybe?) and you've got yourself a deal. At ~$400 / square foot that's relatively pricey. I think typical construction costs are like $125 - $150 / square foot, so this could be a $80k or less free standing house in a truly cheap region.

rcpt 8y ago
Here's a 2 bedroom for $199k ($240 per square ft): https://www.redfin.com/NY/Unknown/112-50-Northern-Blvd-11368/unit-6B/home/113180232 https://www.redfin.com/NY/Unknown/112-50-Northern-Blvd-11368... Try getting anything like that near public transportation that gets you to work in Silicon Valley. But my point isn't that it's cheap, it's that it's relatively cheap compared to Manhattan while still being close to the city.