4 ms·

Unorthodox opinion but here it goes: people like to pretend they know a lot about wines and whiskeys and that they have skills to identify and taste them but th

by Ftuuky 8y ago

Unorthodox opinion but here it goes: people like to pretend they know a lot about wines and whiskeys and that they have skills to identify and taste them but they're just being pretentious or don't know where to spend money. As long as the wine comes from an old caste and the whiskey follow strict procedures it's all the same thing. People want to look sophisticated but when blindfolded then can't even distinguish between red and white wine if they're at same temperature. Same thing for musical instruments. It's all branding, marketing hype for hipsters and some sort of placebo effect.

Balero 8y ago
"People want to look sophisticated but when blindfolded then can't even distinguish between red and white wine if they're at same temperature." I hope you're exaggerating here! I largely agree, the best wines I've every had came out of a box. I read about a bunch of wine critics who did some blind tests and chose a discount wine over much more expensive ones. Frankly if you get a half decent drink and put whatever effort you would have put into getting a better one into having a good time with good people you're on to a winner.
- Spellman 8y ago
  re: red vs white wine, Nope! Not exaggerating! Several studies have shown wine is crazy subjective, and both novices and experts have been fooled before by changing the colors (dye) and bottles. Most people also have trouble blindfolded unless they are particularly experienced.
  - lazerpants 8y ago
    I don't really buy this, I'm an amateur wine snob at best, and blindfolded I had absolutely no trouble telling apart white wines and red wines. In fact, no one at my table of 4, the other 3 having less knowledge of wine than I do, had any trouble whatsoever with red v. white, and all of us were close to right with region or grape variety. The only kicker was a rose champagne which everyone thought was a prosecco.
    - perl4ever 8y ago
      From what I've read in this thread, I infer that the study involved telling blindfolded people that white was red, or vice versa, and people were induced to rationalize their perceptions. The classic Asch conformity experiments[1] did not prove people can't tell the length of lines, did they? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
  - blang 8y ago
    I've heard this one a bunch, but it seems to be really hard to find the source. The closest I have found was that it was a study done bye Frédéric Brochet for his Phd in oenology (did not know that was a word until today) http://web.archive.org/web/20070928231853/http://www.academie-amorim.com/us/laureat_2001/brochet.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20070928231853/http://www.academi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-not-so-smart-why-we-cant-tell-good-wine-from-bad/247240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-n...
- Ftuuky 8y ago
  >I hope you're exaggerating here! I'm not, several studies were conducted. Same thing for violins for example (Stradivarius vs. a contemporary violin that costs much much less).
degenerate 8y ago
Your argument is sort-of correct once it gets down to something extremely difficult for the non-sommelier to determine, like telling the difference between a 2003 and 2005 merlot from the same winery. However your over-zealous example of red vs. white wine is laughably false. There are different regions, types of grapes, length of time the grapes are "starved", barrel material, and so many minute details that go into what makes one wine category (such as merlot) taste different than another (such as pinot noir). It's not a snob thing, it's a flavor profile thing, but the snobs love to shove their knowledge around and make a lot of noise. The the rest of us just enjoy the different flavors and types of wine, and have our favorites. Don't let the hipster snobs discredit the art of winemaking and whiskey making. It's as purposefully nuanced and diverse as programming style.
- Ftuuky 8y ago
  >However your over-zealous example of red vs. white wine is laughably false https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infam...
  - degenerate 8y ago
    Okay, fair... correction: popular American (Napa) red wines are extremely different tasting than typical white wines, and comparing those is lauglable. In that study a French wine was used, which are very "light" and can taste more similar to white wine. Sort of like comparing apple juice and hard cider. However red Napa wines have a very distinct flavor profile -- not so light like French/Greek wines are known to be. You'd definitely know the different by taste.
tptacek 8y ago
No. People read that article where it turns out people couldn't tell white wine from red wine and then think they can extrapolate that (very misleading) data point out through all of wine and spirits. They look silly doing that. Some commenter can reliably be counted on to say something like this in any thread about craft beers. But you would have to have never had more than a couple beers in your life to think that someone couldn't tell a Heady Topper from a Dark Lord. There are a variety of markedly different beer styles, and within a style there are a spectrum of expressions. If you never drink beer, a Dreadnaught and a Pliny the Elder might just taste "IPA" (or, more likely, "super bitter") to you. But it would be pretty silly to argue that there isn't a lot more maltiness, sweetness, and texture to the Dreadnaught, and a lot more balance and fruit to the Pliny. It's the same with whiskey. Even if you've never had whiskey before, you'll have no trouble distinguishing Four Roses from Laphroig. One tastes like burning frogs, and the other doesn't. With no palate at all, you'll still get the sweetness and wineyness from a Redbreast Lustau, even if you don't taste it alongside another Irish whiskey that wasn't aged in wine casks. Woodford Reserve does an old-wood new-wood comparison edition, same spirit, same mash bill, one in new wood and one in old. Even if you're not a whiskey drinker, you will have no trouble triangle-testing between the two. Different whiskeys. Different mash bills, different processing, different aging systems, different aging environments. Different flavors. Not complicated. This is, by the way, equally true of wine. Probably I don't reliably guess Syrah vs Zinfandel, especially with supermarket wine (I'm not a wine guy). But I had a wine flight at Alinea that blew my fucking head off and there is no way I'd have any trouble at all picking out that Pinot Noir from an A to Z I buy at the liquor store. Just as importantly: everybody can pick out a sweet Gewurztraminer from a dry oakey Chardonnay. The "studies" you're thinking about don't say what you think they say. People might not be able to reliably identify specific wines (or, more importantly, pick them out by price). That doesn't mean wines taste identical, even to novices.
eximius 8y ago
Ah, extreme opinions. The hors d'ouevres precipitating internet stupidity. I'll bite. This is patently false. My current favorite whiskey is Blanton's, which I tried knowing nothing about it. My current most disliked whiskey is Tomatin 15 year which came highly recommended to me. I will let the wine somaliers speak for themselves, but whiskey can certainly be identified by the seasoned palette.

by Ftuuky 8y ago

Balero 8y ago

"People want to look sophisticated but when blindfolded then can't even distinguish between red and white wine if they're at same temperature." I hope you're exaggerating here! I largely agree, the best wines I've every had came out of a box. I read about a bunch of wine critics who did some blind tests and chose a discount wine over much more expensive ones. Frankly if you get a half decent drink and put whatever effort you would have put into getting a better one into having a good time with good people you're on to a winner.

Spellman 8y ago
re: red vs white wine, Nope! Not exaggerating! Several studies have shown wine is crazy subjective, and both novices and experts have been fooled before by changing the colors (dye) and bottles. Most people also have trouble blindfolded unless they are particularly experienced.
- lazerpants 8y ago
  I don't really buy this, I'm an amateur wine snob at best, and blindfolded I had absolutely no trouble telling apart white wines and red wines. In fact, no one at my table of 4, the other 3 having less knowledge of wine than I do, had any trouble whatsoever with red v. white, and all of us were close to right with region or grape variety. The only kicker was a rose champagne which everyone thought was a prosecco.
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    From what I've read in this thread, I infer that the study involved telling blindfolded people that white was red, or vice versa, and people were induced to rationalize their perceptions. The classic Asch conformity experiments[1] did not prove people can't tell the length of lines, did they? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
- blang 8y ago
  I've heard this one a bunch, but it seems to be really hard to find the source. The closest I have found was that it was a study done bye Frédéric Brochet for his Phd in oenology (did not know that was a word until today) http://web.archive.org/web/20070928231853/http://www.academie-amorim.com/us/laureat_2001/brochet.pdf http://web.archive.org/web/20070928231853/http://www.academi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-not-so-smart-why-we-cant-tell-good-wine-from-bad/247240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-n...
Ftuuky 8y ago
>I hope you're exaggerating here! I'm not, several studies were conducted. Same thing for violins for example (Stradivarius vs. a contemporary violin that costs much much less).

degenerate 8y ago

Your argument is sort-of correct once it gets down to something extremely difficult for the non-sommelier to determine, like telling the difference between a 2003 and 2005 merlot from the same winery. However your over-zealous example of red vs. white wine is laughably false. There are different regions, types of grapes, length of time the grapes are "starved", barrel material, and so many minute details that go into what makes one wine category (such as merlot) taste different than another (such as pinot noir). It's not a snob thing, it's a flavor profile thing, but the snobs love to shove their knowledge around and make a lot of noise. The the rest of us just enjoy the different flavors and types of wine, and have our favorites. Don't let the hipster snobs discredit the art of winemaking and whiskey making. It's as purposefully nuanced and diverse as programming style.

Ftuuky 8y ago
>However your over-zealous example of red vs. white wine is laughably false https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infam...
- degenerate 8y ago
  Okay, fair... correction: popular American (Napa) red wines are extremely different tasting than typical white wines, and comparing those is lauglable. In that study a French wine was used, which are very "light" and can taste more similar to white wine. Sort of like comparing apple juice and hard cider. However red Napa wines have a very distinct flavor profile -- not so light like French/Greek wines are known to be. You'd definitely know the different by taste.

tptacek 8y ago

No. People read that article where it turns out people couldn't tell white wine from red wine and then think they can extrapolate that (very misleading) data point out through all of wine and spirits. They look silly doing that. Some commenter can reliably be counted on to say something like this in any thread about craft beers. But you would have to have never had more than a couple beers in your life to think that someone couldn't tell a Heady Topper from a Dark Lord. There are a variety of markedly different beer styles, and within a style there are a spectrum of expressions. If you never drink beer, a Dreadnaught and a Pliny the Elder might just taste "IPA" (or, more likely, "super bitter") to you. But it would be pretty silly to argue that there isn't a lot more maltiness, sweetness, and texture to the Dreadnaught, and a lot more balance and fruit to the Pliny. It's the same with whiskey. Even if you've never had whiskey before, you'll have no trouble distinguishing Four Roses from Laphroig. One tastes like burning frogs, and the other doesn't. With no palate at all, you'll still get the sweetness and wineyness from a Redbreast Lustau, even if you don't taste it alongside another Irish whiskey that wasn't aged in wine casks. Woodford Reserve does an old-wood new-wood comparison edition, same spirit, same mash bill, one in new wood and one in old. Even if you're not a whiskey drinker, you will have no trouble triangle-testing between the two. Different whiskeys. Different mash bills, different processing, different aging systems, different aging environments. Different flavors. Not complicated. This is, by the way, equally true of wine. Probably I don't reliably guess Syrah vs Zinfandel, especially with supermarket wine (I'm not a wine guy). But I had a wine flight at Alinea that blew my fucking head off and there is no way I'd have any trouble at all picking out that Pinot Noir from an A to Z I buy at the liquor store. Just as importantly: everybody can pick out a sweet Gewurztraminer from a dry oakey Chardonnay. The "studies" you're thinking about don't say what you think they say. People might not be able to reliably identify specific wines (or, more importantly, pick them out by price). That doesn't mean wines taste identical, even to novices.

eximius 8y ago

Ah, extreme opinions. The hors d'ouevres precipitating internet stupidity. I'll bite. This is patently false. My current favorite whiskey is Blanton's, which I tried knowing nothing about it. My current most disliked whiskey is Tomatin 15 year which came highly recommended to me. I will let the wine somaliers speak for themselves, but whiskey can certainly be identified by the seasoned palette.