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You state it's a "non-solution", but is it really? We've shown time and time again that appealing to people on the "big, intangible thing" just isn't working.

You state it's a "non-solution", but is it really? We've shown time and time again that appealing to people on the "big, intangible thing" just isn't working. Lots of hand-waving about taxation on big businesses isn't useful if there's no pressure from the general public to get us there. Framing the issue with something as relatable as straws gives some grounding, providing a foundation to build the harder arguments on. We started with plastic bags in the UK, we're working our way through straws (and things like wasting ugly food), momentum builds, and soon you'll have an entire populace trained to spot wasteful use of resources. It's a giant education piece for millions of people - edging and nudging behaviour, where "shock change" has fundamentally failed so far. You also diminish the importance of simple-minded satisfaction. We want people to run towards solutions, not be beaten away from bad habits.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
isostatic 8y ago
I was listening to infinite monkey cage the other day (the 100th episode - actually watched it) The format wasn't great (too much in too short a time), but one assertion was made that the damage caused by 1 'bag for life' was equal to 100+ disposable bags. This seems to stem from a UK Government comparative study [0] of supermarket bags, which showed that a cotton reusable bag must be reused 131 times to match the lower environmental impact of a conventional plastic shopping bag used just once. However non-cotton bags had far lower reuse levels, and it isn't clear at a quick glance how they determine environmental impact. They also neglect to account for double-bagging that used to be prevalant, or the larger bag sizes of "bag-for-life" meaning you need fewer bags for your shopping. It looks from that report that typical bags need to be reused 4 or 5 times to be effective. [1] suggests an average of 6 times. One thing that has changed though with the 5p charge, coupled with things like Blue Planet -- people think about their use. In the past people would have a bag when buying 2 or 3 things, now they often don't, using pockets or existing bags. The change in attitude is probably more of an impact than bag reuse. [0] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291023/scho0711buan-e-e.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36917174 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36917174
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Selling reusable bags at $1 turns a $0.015 cost into a $0.55 profit - from a store's point of view. This scales quite nicely.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Reusable bags in the UK are 5p, and the big shops certainly give any proceeds to charities. $1 sounds far better though -- fewer people will treat them as disposable. I guess you should vote with your wallet.
TimTheTinker 8y ago
> "big, intangible thing" As the article stated, the global problem of plastic waste entering the ocean may be big, but it is definitely not intangible. The source of most plastic entering the ocean is poor coastal countries that lack developed solid waste management. (By contrast, the US is responsible for only 1% of plastic that enters the ocean annually.) It took me some time, but I found a non-profit that helps develop waste management in African countries. If you want to make a tangible difference in future oceanic plastic waste volume, a donation here might help: http://www.waste.nl/ http://www.waste.nl/
- manicdee 8y ago
  Throwing solid waste in a hole is not management of that waste. What we need is recycling technology that works and is widely used, which requires money, which means we need to target the advanced economies first.
  - TimTheTinker 8y ago
    I strongly disagree. Properly using and managing landfills worldwide is one of several necessary first steps towards a better ocean. We are multiple large breakthroughs away from recycling technology becoming a viable path towards meaningful reduction of ocean-bound waste. Meanwhile, poor coastal nations continue to use the ocean as a landfill. Assuming you’re able to dodge corruption in local officials, a dollar towards waste management development in Africa will go much further (in reduced kg/year of trash going into the ocean) than a dollar towards recycling technology R&D.
  - TimTheTinker 8y ago
    Here's an article that gives some more shape to the problem: https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-01-13/5-countries-dump-more-plastic-oceans-rest-world-combined https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-01-13/5-countries-dump-more...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

isostatic 8y ago

I was listening to infinite monkey cage the other day (the 100th episode - actually watched it) The format wasn't great (too much in too short a time), but one assertion was made that the damage caused by 1 'bag for life' was equal to 100+ disposable bags. This seems to stem from a UK Government comparative study [0] of supermarket bags, which showed that a cotton reusable bag must be reused 131 times to match the lower environmental impact of a conventional plastic shopping bag used just once. However non-cotton bags had far lower reuse levels, and it isn't clear at a quick glance how they determine environmental impact. They also neglect to account for double-bagging that used to be prevalant, or the larger bag sizes of "bag-for-life" meaning you need fewer bags for your shopping. It looks from that report that typical bags need to be reused 4 or 5 times to be effective. [1] suggests an average of 6 times. One thing that has changed though with the 5p charge, coupled with things like Blue Planet -- people think about their use. In the past people would have a bag when buying 2 or 3 things, now they often don't, using pockets or existing bags. The change in attitude is probably more of an impact than bag reuse. [0] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291023/scho0711buan-e-e.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36917174 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36917174

stephengillie 8y ago
Selling reusable bags at $1 turns a $0.015 cost into a $0.55 profit - from a store's point of view. This scales quite nicely.
- isostatic 8y ago
  Reusable bags in the UK are 5p, and the big shops certainly give any proceeds to charities. $1 sounds far better though -- fewer people will treat them as disposable. I guess you should vote with your wallet.

TimTheTinker 8y ago

> "big, intangible thing" As the article stated, the global problem of plastic waste entering the ocean may be big, but it is definitely not intangible. The source of most plastic entering the ocean is poor coastal countries that lack developed solid waste management. (By contrast, the US is responsible for only 1% of plastic that enters the ocean annually.) It took me some time, but I found a non-profit that helps develop waste management in African countries. If you want to make a tangible difference in future oceanic plastic waste volume, a donation here might help: http://www.waste.nl/ http://www.waste.nl/

manicdee 8y ago
Throwing solid waste in a hole is not management of that waste. What we need is recycling technology that works and is widely used, which requires money, which means we need to target the advanced economies first.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  I strongly disagree. Properly using and managing landfills worldwide is one of several necessary first steps towards a better ocean. We are multiple large breakthroughs away from recycling technology becoming a viable path towards meaningful reduction of ocean-bound waste. Meanwhile, poor coastal nations continue to use the ocean as a landfill. Assuming you’re able to dodge corruption in local officials, a dollar towards waste management development in Africa will go much further (in reduced kg/year of trash going into the ocean) than a dollar towards recycling technology R&D.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  Here's an article that gives some more shape to the problem: https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-01-13/5-countries-dump-more-plastic-oceans-rest-world-combined https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-01-13/5-countries-dump-more...