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> This seems really suboptimal and the OP's comments on power imbalances seem on target. There is an easy solution: Tell all your friends that they should avoi

> This seems really suboptimal and the OP's comments on power imbalances seem on target. There is an easy solution: Tell all your friends that they should avoid companies that have such a policy in their terms of service and create a public blacklist of such companies including an explanation what policy in their terms of service justifies putting the company on this blacklist.

Bahamut 8y ago
Good luck convincing people they shouldn't use anything by Google.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  But you can look at the individual services and tell them what alternatives there exist and what "dubious" terms of service these companies avoid. It is not an all-or-nothing, but an "avoid, except for these two exotic use cases, for which there currently exists no alternative (and as soon as there exists one, drop also these)".
  - Bahamut 8y ago
    Sure, and that probably will hurt such bad actors to some degree, but alternatives also come with downsides too - no product is perfect out there, and people often have different priorities. Not to say I applaud Google's strategy - I think it is horrific.
- imhoguy 8y ago
  At least they should utilize it with private domain plus run frequent backups of gmail and gdrive stuff. One never knows when one may get unplugged.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
The existence of a power imbalance indicates you can't really do without the other party. The big companies have amazing economies of scale, and consumers (on their good side) can benefit greatly from them. There's a handful of airlines, two mobile networks, one ISP for most people, etc. edit: Also, in my experience running businesses, the 10% of the customers cause 90% of the problems, so eliminating them results in much greater profits and cost savings. And if the problem customer is not high value, then there isn't much incentive in dealing with them.
- apk17 8y ago
  I.e the 10% are not worthy of having an ISP, or health insurance. As for the ISPs, this often isn't even about the customers being annoying, but simply their subscriber line being rotten or in an undocumented state which to sort out is too complicated for the tech-drones.
jfktrey 8y ago
Consumers generally don’t care about these terms until it affects them personally. Additionally, in the author’s case, I can’t name one alternative to the type of service provided by AirBnB. Maybe I’m out of the loop.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Airbnb competitors: https://www.tripping.com/industry/rental-companies/9-airbnb-competitors-that-you-should-know-about https://www.tripping.com/industry/rental-companies/9-airbnb-...
  - kangnkodos 8y ago
    I've used VRBO and HomeAway before Airbnb existed, and I always had excellent experiences. After my recent bad experience with Airbnb and reading this story, I'm going to give them another look.
- aeorgnoieang 8y ago
  > I can’t name one alternative to the type of service provided by AirBnB What exactly is it that AirBnB provides that hotels don't? I like staying at AirBnBs, but there are lots of alternatives depending on exactly what components of the services they provide you require.
  - Kliment 8y ago
    Places to stay in small towns where there is at most one hotel that might be inconvenient or full or nonexistent. Places to stay where you can actually use a kitchen (great in areas with weak food availability or for people with allergies). Not having to argue with hotel night staff about whether you can pay by card. And in general way better service (from hosts).
    - pnutjam 8y ago
      Yeah, I've used priceline to stay in Michigan, mostly. I've never had trouble with declining to put a cc on file at the hotel. Drove out to Connecticut and their policy was hard, of course I didn't have cc funds available and I had a carload of kids that had been traveling all day. One of the guys there, a bellhop I think, put the charge on his card and trusted me not to screw him. One of the nicest things a stranger has ever done for me.
GVIrish 8y ago
Stories like this are why I avoid relying on the sharing economy when I really need something. If I'm going on a trip with my kids in tow, I don't want to be at the mercy of AirBNB where someone can flippantly screw me over with little recourse. If I want to rent a car on vacation I might try to reserve a car through Turo but I'll reserve through a traditional car rental company just to be safe. I know I can have a bad experience with a traditional company but I also know they're not just gonna close my account and persona non grata me with no appeal. It's kinda sad that these sharing economy businesses are even more heartless than the incumbents in some ways.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  Note that the "sharing" economy is an outright lie. Its piecework wrapped in what AirBnB, Uber & Turo hope is a more palatable verbiage. Sharing is when someone shares something with you, generally without recompense. None of these companies sell anything like that!
  - GVIrish 8y ago
    Very good point.
thomasz 8y ago
Ouside of truly exceptional circumstances, consumer boycotts just do not work. Tragedy of the commons and all that. If you want to see change, something you need to demand regulation.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
Being treated with dignity by companies should not depend on how many friends I have.

Bahamut 8y ago

Good luck convincing people they shouldn't use anything by Google.

wolfgke 8y ago
But you can look at the individual services and tell them what alternatives there exist and what "dubious" terms of service these companies avoid. It is not an all-or-nothing, but an "avoid, except for these two exotic use cases, for which there currently exists no alternative (and as soon as there exists one, drop also these)".
- Bahamut 8y ago
  Sure, and that probably will hurt such bad actors to some degree, but alternatives also come with downsides too - no product is perfect out there, and people often have different priorities. Not to say I applaud Google's strategy - I think it is horrific.
imhoguy 8y ago
At least they should utilize it with private domain plus run frequent backups of gmail and gdrive stuff. One never knows when one may get unplugged.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

The existence of a power imbalance indicates you can't really do without the other party. The big companies have amazing economies of scale, and consumers (on their good side) can benefit greatly from them. There's a handful of airlines, two mobile networks, one ISP for most people, etc. edit: Also, in my experience running businesses, the 10% of the customers cause 90% of the problems, so eliminating them results in much greater profits and cost savings. And if the problem customer is not high value, then there isn't much incentive in dealing with them.

apk17 8y ago
I.e the 10% are not worthy of having an ISP, or health insurance. As for the ISPs, this often isn't even about the customers being annoying, but simply their subscriber line being rotten or in an undocumented state which to sort out is too complicated for the tech-drones.

jfktrey 8y ago

Consumers generally don’t care about these terms until it affects them personally. Additionally, in the author’s case, I can’t name one alternative to the type of service provided by AirBnB. Maybe I’m out of the loop.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Airbnb competitors: https://www.tripping.com/industry/rental-companies/9-airbnb-competitors-that-you-should-know-about https://www.tripping.com/industry/rental-companies/9-airbnb-...
- kangnkodos 8y ago
  I've used VRBO and HomeAway before Airbnb existed, and I always had excellent experiences. After my recent bad experience with Airbnb and reading this story, I'm going to give them another look.
aeorgnoieang 8y ago
> I can’t name one alternative to the type of service provided by AirBnB What exactly is it that AirBnB provides that hotels don't? I like staying at AirBnBs, but there are lots of alternatives depending on exactly what components of the services they provide you require.
- Kliment 8y ago
  Places to stay in small towns where there is at most one hotel that might be inconvenient or full or nonexistent. Places to stay where you can actually use a kitchen (great in areas with weak food availability or for people with allergies). Not having to argue with hotel night staff about whether you can pay by card. And in general way better service (from hosts).
  - pnutjam 8y ago
    Yeah, I've used priceline to stay in Michigan, mostly. I've never had trouble with declining to put a cc on file at the hotel. Drove out to Connecticut and their policy was hard, of course I didn't have cc funds available and I had a carload of kids that had been traveling all day. One of the guys there, a bellhop I think, put the charge on his card and trusted me not to screw him. One of the nicest things a stranger has ever done for me.

GVIrish 8y ago

Stories like this are why I avoid relying on the sharing economy when I really need something. If I'm going on a trip with my kids in tow, I don't want to be at the mercy of AirBNB where someone can flippantly screw me over with little recourse. If I want to rent a car on vacation I might try to reserve a car through Turo but I'll reserve through a traditional car rental company just to be safe. I know I can have a bad experience with a traditional company but I also know they're not just gonna close my account and persona non grata me with no appeal. It's kinda sad that these sharing economy businesses are even more heartless than the incumbents in some ways.

StudentStuff 8y ago
Note that the "sharing" economy is an outright lie. Its piecework wrapped in what AirBnB, Uber & Turo hope is a more palatable verbiage. Sharing is when someone shares something with you, generally without recompense. None of these companies sell anything like that!
- GVIrish 8y ago
  Very good point.

thomasz 8y ago

Ouside of truly exceptional circumstances, consumer boycotts just do not work. Tragedy of the commons and all that. If you want to see change, something you need to demand regulation.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

Being treated with dignity by companies should not depend on how many friends I have.