11 ms·

> $699 and no ability to upgrade Sounds like a perfect fit for the Apple ecosystem.

cozzyd 8y ago
They should charge double for something that's 20% thinner but 30% slower.
dmix 8y ago
I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... Apple's non-pro lines are likely not much different. Apple largely sacrificed that ability (in a few product lines) in favour of creating some of the thinnest laptops available. I don't remember them ever doing that before Macbook Air, for now reason. That said, in this case, I don't see what is being gained by not making the GPU swappable or at least accessible (although it might very well still be). I'm assuming they could simply only offer official support for the one it contains but let people do whatever they want with it (which again might be the case in practice, they just aren't announcing it officially).
- angott 8y ago
  I miss so much my 2009 MacBook Pro, where you could take out the DVD drive and replace it with an additional SSD for a performance boost.
  - PinguTS 8y ago
    You mean the old PowerBook Series where you could easily swap the batteries on the go and swap the DVD drive for an additional battery.
    - gargravarr 8y ago
      Still have my G3 500MHz somewhere - used that for my entire first year at university in 2008. Battery life was amazing.
  - porker 8y ago
    I'm still using mine, with a patched version of OSX High Sierra installed. No problems.
    - predakanga 8y ago
      How has your experience with that been? My MBP (early 2011) won't be supported by MacOS Mojave, so I'm anticipating a similar patch. I may end up staying with High Sierra, but I'd really like to try out the dark mode
      - porker 8y ago
        Only problems have been after the occasional update, when the patches haven't been updated. A few times it's taken 5-6 reboots to start OSX properly. The best way is to delay updates as long as possible! Apart from that, no problems at all. http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ and the related forum posts were excellent.
  - mikeyouse 8y ago
    Ha, I just did that this week. I have a late 2011 MBP and I noticed it was dragging a bit so I upgraded it from 8gb ram to 16gb and bought a 500gb SSD to replace the factory HDD. The next day I decided I wanted more space for my pictures so I bought the little enclosure and swapped out my CDROM and just reused the factory 1TB HDD. Like $220 later and it feels like a brand new machine.
    - rajnp 8y ago
      Did the same thing for my 2012 MBP.
    - mch82 8y ago
      Any chance you've got a link to reliable instructions?
      - gargravarr 8y ago
        iFixit are great for this: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Unibody+Late+2011+Dual+Hard+Drive/10986 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+...
        mikeyouse 8y ago
        Yep, I used their instructions for the hard drive replacement and then again for the CDROM swap out. I used to build my own machines so I was pretty confident going in, on my scale the HDD was about a 3 difficulty but the CDROM was maybe a 6.. you need to disconnect several tiny connectors to clear enough space which always makes me nervous about breaking one but it went fine in the end.
    - rootusrootus 8y ago
      I did pretty much the same thing on my late 2011 MBP. And then the graphics went tits up. Argh!
    - kayoone 8y ago
      you were using a 7 year old Laptop with a HDD in 2018 ? Some people don't seem to have any hardware requirements at all.. While i could tolerate a CPU from 2011, using it without an SSD feels so slow today, it's barely usable tbh. I switched to SSDs in 2009 in all my machines and never looked back, despite the price at the time.
  - iagooar 8y ago
    Oh yeah, let's make the MBP double thick so there is space just in case you need an upgrade...
    - ben-schaaf 8y ago
      I recently bought an Aero 15. It's less than half a cm thicker than the new MBP and only 300g heavier. It's got a free SODIMM and NVME slot once you get the right screwdriver. There's plenty of reasons not to buy this specific laptop, but it's one of many that are in the same weight/size category that are both cheaper than the top end MacBook Pro and outperform it.
- GoToRO 8y ago
  My HP laptop died, the integrated GPU died. And HP support said they do not manufacture that motherboard anymore. So what's the point of having it upgradable? Sometimes it works, other times not.
  - JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    It's always been the case with laptops that if the mainboard or some part ON the main board died, well, that's that. But being able to upgrade RAM, HDD or wifi was always great so you could eek a couple more years from it. People who want upgrade-ability aren't wrong for wanting to buck the throw away society we've become.
    - GoToRO 8y ago
      I choose upgrade-ability too, it's just that I was shorted by HP choosing bad quality and lack of spares. I flipped the coin and I lost it seems.
  - everyone 8y ago
    "HP support said they do not manufacture that motherboard anymore" You can probably still buy one of those mobos and swap it out. Just look on ebay.
- dragonshed 8y ago
  I upgraded the ram and disk on my 2012 13in MacBook Pro. The lack of upgradability on the newer machines is a real turn off.
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    The option is to buy it fully specced. A new 6-core i9 with 32 gigs of DDR4 amd 4TB of flash storage will probably keep you happy for the next 5 years. That means your budget is slightly above US$ 1200/year of happy computing with a Mac. If you don't need macOS or an ultra-elegant thin computer with an incredible screen, you'll probably be happier with a PC from Dell or Lenovo with similar specs and an updated machine every 2 years. But they are neither elegant, nor thin. At least they run Linux very well. My current personal laptop is 4.5 years old and I am now considering replacing it with a machine with specs similar to the PC I described - non-thin, non-elegant, decent-but-not-incredible screen, a non-bleeding-edge CPU, as much memory as possible, some flash storage and a hard disk and I don't expect to upgrade it in less than 5 years.
    - octorian 8y ago
      > The option is to buy it fully specced. A new 6-core i9 with 32 gigs of DDR4 amd 4TB of flash storage will probably keep you happy for the next 5 years. That means your budget is slightly above US$ 1200/year of happy computing with a Mac. The problem is that not everyone has the budget to buy a fully-speced machine at the time of initial purchase. Also, many laptop vendors charge a significant premium to buy such configurations. Apple partly solves this by simply not even selling the low-speced "base model" that other vendors would advertise. But still, buying low/mid-range now and upgrading later can be significantly more tolerable on the wallet than going-for-broke every major upgrade cycle.
      - rbanffy 8y ago
        > The problem is that not everyone has the budget to buy a fully-speced machine at the time of initial purchase Yes. In some markets Apple offers financing options right on their website. In case of businesses, they can deal directly with their banks.
- thetinguy 8y ago
  You can still buy other thunderbolt 3 enclosures. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544
- geezerjay 8y ago
  > I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... I've added RAM and replaced the HD with a SSD on a laptop I've owned since 2005,and would upgraded more chips if it was possible.
  - k3liutZu 8y ago
    You are the 0.01%
    - geezerjay 8y ago
      No, I'm really not. In fact, the only reason this isn't done more often is because some OEMs defraud their customers by forcing obsolescense into their products, such as intentionally designing them to be very impractical if not impossible to do basic stuff such as cleaning air ducts or replacing a HD. If you asked any macbook pro owner if they were willing to spend money to double its RAM or HDD capacity I'm sure you wouldn't get many negative answers.
      - ProblemFactory 8y ago
        That is still an extremely small minority who would upgrade. Based on what I've seen from non-technical friends and family, the standard approach to laptops is to buy a $300 netbook, fill it with crappy browser extensions and malware over a few years, complain that the computer is "too old and slow", throw it out and buy a new one.
        geezerjay 8y ago
        > That is still an extremely small minority who would upgrade. It's really not, and it's quite obvious that the baseless assertion that no one wants to upgrade hardware is rather mind-numbingly absurd. There are businesses dedicated to repair, upgrade and refurbish computers, including laptops. There are businesses dedicated to sell used hardware which offer clients a choice of processors and other components, including different makes and models. It's utterly absurd that we're supposed that this basic need simply vanishes in a specific form factor.
- firecall 8y ago
  Indeed - exactly. And it's wasteful - once the GPU is out of date you have to dispose of a perfectly good TB3 enclosure. Another anti-consumer decision made under the auspices of design and practicality that consumers want. I cant imagine a single customer has ever asked for a non-upgradable eGPU.
  - Tehnix 8y ago
    No, they asked for a quiet one.
    - jonhendry18 8y ago
      Wire up a fan speed control.
  - gmueckl 8y ago
    That thing is upgradeable. Just replace the boy wih a new one. Just plug the cables. No screwdriver required! Who cares that 50% of the components in both boxes are functionally identical? Certainly not all the not overly technical folks out there.
- yellow_postit 8y ago
  What % can be upgraded? This seems like a self fulfilling prophecy, just like mobile phones have moved towards non-user serviceable batteries. Great way to bootstrap an accessory ecosystem into existence.
- awalton 8y ago
  > I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... Some huge percentage of that is because many if not most laptops shipping today have wired everything down. You can't even update the Wifi chip in most laptops today, even though the whole reason we put Wifi on a daughtercard in the first place is because we knew the standards were going to have to move... Meanwhile, I'm typing this from a five year old laptop that I would have happily upgraded by adding more RAM if possible, and I know a lot of people that would be more than happy to do the same, since CPU technology hasn't really been improving in leaps and bounds and neither has laptop design in the past five years. Let's not be afraid to call it what it is: It's planned obsolescence. They want you to have to buy a new one in 18 months when they ship version 2.
  - z3phyr 8y ago
    Why is this comment being down voted?
    - aikinai 8y ago
      Because it’s intentionally obtuse to assume the only reason you would ever sacrifice upgradeability is for planned obsolescence.
      - RealityVoid 8y ago
        But is it really far fetched? I am certain some people somewhere have considered this a big plus and weighted in their decision more than perhaps many of the other reasons for making HW impossible to upgrade.
        mitchty 8y ago
        > But is it really far fetched? Yes, making things upgradeable generally adds weight and size to components. Sockets aren't "free", calling it planned obsolescence is absurd. They've been designed to have wired in components for a reason. You may not agree with that reason, say size constraints, but that is the constraints it was designed under. Weighting any decision is: how much will this cost our design? (note, cost here is not just money, its time, size, weight, manufacturing cost, complexity, etc...) Upgradeability is a feature, if nobody is willing to pay for it, guess what will happen to the feature? Same thing as happened to our own species tails, they became obsolete.
- batrat 8y ago
  I work in a PC environment with 2k+ clients and even more side customers. 90% of PC customers upgrade their old laptops with more ram and SSD. Also some upgrade their network card, replace the dvd with a HDD/SSD, etc. Because the CPU is not a problem and no noticeable difference in performance from generation to generation, makes no damn sense to replace their laptops.
  - overcast 8y ago
    That's just some silly underspeced nonsense then. I have a PC environment of 5000, and it's definitely in the single digits. PC's are speced appropriately prior to purchase, with a lifetime of 5 years. Sure occasionally users will request, and IT will approve an upgrade based on individual demands. But who the hell has time to upgrade 90% of the machines, after you've already spent the time migrating / deploying them? At 5 years, you're already turning over 20% of the environment yearly.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      > I have a PC environment of 5000, and it's definitely in the single digits. PC's are speced appropriately prior to purchase, with a lifetime of 5 years You get easily get more than 5yr at less cost if you spec for upgrade ability up front (good CPU + motherboard specs) and then do a mid lifecycle ram, storage, etc upgrade. Rolling upgrades can save even more money if done properly because the hardware coming out of use becomes your service parts for the stuff that's getting up there in age. Regardless, the best solution is whatever fits your specific needs best.
      - overcast 8y ago
        Of course you can, but that's not how depreciated assets work in the corporate world. Especially when warranty/support ends after 5 years with companies like Dell.
        ravonus 8y ago
        I agree... Its a laptop. 5 year refresh cycle is plenty time for the device. Your looking at a few hundred dollars to get small gains to keep a device running an extra year or two. When by that time the market will have things 90% better ha.
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  > I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... You're right, they don't. They ask someone else to do it. So, I'd bet your number is way off.
- jclardy 8y ago
  I think the gain is in footprint size and noise levels. I have a Sonnet eGPU box, and it is pretty massive, nearly the size of a microATX case. It also has a fan on the box and the fan of the GPU cooler itself. This design looks a lot smaller, and I'm sure it is a lot quieter as well. If you don't want those things and do want upgradability there are plenty of other options available already.
- Teknoman117 8y ago
  Even with the chunky laptops, I only ever really upgraded the wifi card, ram, and storage...
jonplackett 8y ago
Reason Apple make upgrades impossible is so they can charge ridiculous prices for their built in upgrades. the new mac has a 4TB SSD option for £2800. You can buy a 4TB top of the range samsung SSD for £800. £2000 profit is a good motivation for sticking stuff down.
- itsdrewmiller 8y ago
  SATA SSDs are not top of the line - a 4TB nvme card is more like $3k: https://www.amazon.com/HighPoint-rSSD7101A-4TB-NVMe-Drive/dp/B077SYWL4D/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1531506985&sr=1-17&keywords=4tb+ssd+nvme https://www.amazon.com/HighPoint-rSSD7101A-4TB-NVMe-Drive/dp... The samsung SSDs have about 15% the read speed Apple is advertising.
  - Zephyreks 8y ago
    Compare the HP EX920 (1TB for $300 on sale) to the SSD in the... 15" MBP 2017, or something. HP EX920: http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/hp-ex920-asssd.jpg http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/hp-ex... Apple: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Apple/MacBook_Pro_15_2017/asssd.PNG https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Apple/MacB... Same AS SSD benchmark. Now you can argue that since SSD performance increases with size, maybe that's why. Then prove it.
coldtea 8y ago
>Sounds like a perfect fit for the Apple ecosystem. I've read statistics that most users, business or not, don't update anything, even when the hardware gives them the opportunity. For businesses it doesn't even make much sense to update: they can just lease or buy new computers and have them as a tax writeoff. As for most people, they just buy a new PC every 5-6 years (can be 10 years for the less interested in tech), and that's it. It's a small niche of tinkerers and "power users" (actually power tinkerers -- there are users that do much more important stuff with the computers than them that still don't tinker at all) that ever does upgrade stuff. Of course that's includes many people in our tech bubble, but you'd be surprised how many programmers don't care for upgrading and tinkering, and just buy a new laptop every so often. As a programmer myself (CS degree and everything) I know I hate tinkering with hardware with a passion, but I know lots of others that do too. Of course I also know many dev friends and colleagues that do like building custom rigs.

They should charge double for something that's 20% thinner but 30% slower.

dmix 8y ago

I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... Apple's non-pro lines are likely not much different. Apple largely sacrificed that ability (in a few product lines) in favour of creating some of the thinnest laptops available. I don't remember them ever doing that before Macbook Air, for now reason. That said, in this case, I don't see what is being gained by not making the GPU swappable or at least accessible (although it might very well still be). I'm assuming they could simply only offer official support for the one it contains but let people do whatever they want with it (which again might be the case in practice, they just aren't announcing it officially).

angott 8y ago
I miss so much my 2009 MacBook Pro, where you could take out the DVD drive and replace it with an additional SSD for a performance boost.
- PinguTS 8y ago
  You mean the old PowerBook Series where you could easily swap the batteries on the go and swap the DVD drive for an additional battery.
  - gargravarr 8y ago
    Still have my G3 500MHz somewhere - used that for my entire first year at university in 2008. Battery life was amazing.
- porker 8y ago
  I'm still using mine, with a patched version of OSX High Sierra installed. No problems.
  - predakanga 8y ago
    How has your experience with that been? My MBP (early 2011) won't be supported by MacOS Mojave, so I'm anticipating a similar patch. I may end up staying with High Sierra, but I'd really like to try out the dark mode
    - porker 8y ago
      Only problems have been after the occasional update, when the patches haven't been updated. A few times it's taken 5-6 reboots to start OSX properly. The best way is to delay updates as long as possible! Apart from that, no problems at all. http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ and the related forum posts were excellent.
- mikeyouse 8y ago
  Ha, I just did that this week. I have a late 2011 MBP and I noticed it was dragging a bit so I upgraded it from 8gb ram to 16gb and bought a 500gb SSD to replace the factory HDD. The next day I decided I wanted more space for my pictures so I bought the little enclosure and swapped out my CDROM and just reused the factory 1TB HDD. Like $220 later and it feels like a brand new machine.
  - rajnp 8y ago
    Did the same thing for my 2012 MBP.
  - mch82 8y ago
    Any chance you've got a link to reliable instructions?
    - gargravarr 8y ago
      iFixit are great for this: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Unibody+Late+2011+Dual+Hard+Drive/10986 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+...
      - mikeyouse 8y ago
        Yep, I used their instructions for the hard drive replacement and then again for the CDROM swap out. I used to build my own machines so I was pretty confident going in, on my scale the HDD was about a 3 difficulty but the CDROM was maybe a 6.. you need to disconnect several tiny connectors to clear enough space which always makes me nervous about breaking one but it went fine in the end.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    I did pretty much the same thing on my late 2011 MBP. And then the graphics went tits up. Argh!
  - kayoone 8y ago
    you were using a 7 year old Laptop with a HDD in 2018 ? Some people don't seem to have any hardware requirements at all.. While i could tolerate a CPU from 2011, using it without an SSD feels so slow today, it's barely usable tbh. I switched to SSDs in 2009 in all my machines and never looked back, despite the price at the time.
- iagooar 8y ago
  Oh yeah, let's make the MBP double thick so there is space just in case you need an upgrade...
  - ben-schaaf 8y ago
    I recently bought an Aero 15. It's less than half a cm thicker than the new MBP and only 300g heavier. It's got a free SODIMM and NVME slot once you get the right screwdriver. There's plenty of reasons not to buy this specific laptop, but it's one of many that are in the same weight/size category that are both cheaper than the top end MacBook Pro and outperform it.
GoToRO 8y ago
My HP laptop died, the integrated GPU died. And HP support said they do not manufacture that motherboard anymore. So what's the point of having it upgradable? Sometimes it works, other times not.
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  It's always been the case with laptops that if the mainboard or some part ON the main board died, well, that's that. But being able to upgrade RAM, HDD or wifi was always great so you could eek a couple more years from it. People who want upgrade-ability aren't wrong for wanting to buck the throw away society we've become.
  - GoToRO 8y ago
    I choose upgrade-ability too, it's just that I was shorted by HP choosing bad quality and lack of spares. I flipped the coin and I lost it seems.
- everyone 8y ago
  "HP support said they do not manufacture that motherboard anymore" You can probably still buy one of those mobos and swap it out. Just look on ebay.
dragonshed 8y ago
I upgraded the ram and disk on my 2012 13in MacBook Pro. The lack of upgradability on the newer machines is a real turn off.
- rbanffy 8y ago
  The option is to buy it fully specced. A new 6-core i9 with 32 gigs of DDR4 amd 4TB of flash storage will probably keep you happy for the next 5 years. That means your budget is slightly above US$ 1200/year of happy computing with a Mac. If you don't need macOS or an ultra-elegant thin computer with an incredible screen, you'll probably be happier with a PC from Dell or Lenovo with similar specs and an updated machine every 2 years. But they are neither elegant, nor thin. At least they run Linux very well. My current personal laptop is 4.5 years old and I am now considering replacing it with a machine with specs similar to the PC I described - non-thin, non-elegant, decent-but-not-incredible screen, a non-bleeding-edge CPU, as much memory as possible, some flash storage and a hard disk and I don't expect to upgrade it in less than 5 years.
  - octorian 8y ago
    > The option is to buy it fully specced. A new 6-core i9 with 32 gigs of DDR4 amd 4TB of flash storage will probably keep you happy for the next 5 years. That means your budget is slightly above US$ 1200/year of happy computing with a Mac. The problem is that not everyone has the budget to buy a fully-speced machine at the time of initial purchase. Also, many laptop vendors charge a significant premium to buy such configurations. Apple partly solves this by simply not even selling the low-speced "base model" that other vendors would advertise. But still, buying low/mid-range now and upgrading later can be significantly more tolerable on the wallet than going-for-broke every major upgrade cycle.
    - rbanffy 8y ago
      > The problem is that not everyone has the budget to buy a fully-speced machine at the time of initial purchase Yes. In some markets Apple offers financing options right on their website. In case of businesses, they can deal directly with their banks.
thetinguy 8y ago
You can still buy other thunderbolt 3 enclosures. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544
geezerjay 8y ago
> I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... I've added RAM and replaced the HD with a SSD on a laptop I've owned since 2005,and would upgraded more chips if it was possible.
- k3liutZu 8y ago
  You are the 0.01%
  - geezerjay 8y ago
    No, I'm really not. In fact, the only reason this isn't done more often is because some OEMs defraud their customers by forcing obsolescense into their products, such as intentionally designing them to be very impractical if not impossible to do basic stuff such as cleaning air ducts or replacing a HD. If you asked any macbook pro owner if they were willing to spend money to double its RAM or HDD capacity I'm sure you wouldn't get many negative answers.
    - ProblemFactory 8y ago
      That is still an extremely small minority who would upgrade. Based on what I've seen from non-technical friends and family, the standard approach to laptops is to buy a $300 netbook, fill it with crappy browser extensions and malware over a few years, complain that the computer is "too old and slow", throw it out and buy a new one.
      - geezerjay 8y ago
        > That is still an extremely small minority who would upgrade. It's really not, and it's quite obvious that the baseless assertion that no one wants to upgrade hardware is rather mind-numbingly absurd. There are businesses dedicated to repair, upgrade and refurbish computers, including laptops. There are businesses dedicated to sell used hardware which offer clients a choice of processors and other components, including different makes and models. It's utterly absurd that we're supposed that this basic need simply vanishes in a specific form factor.
firecall 8y ago
Indeed - exactly. And it's wasteful - once the GPU is out of date you have to dispose of a perfectly good TB3 enclosure. Another anti-consumer decision made under the auspices of design and practicality that consumers want. I cant imagine a single customer has ever asked for a non-upgradable eGPU.
- Tehnix 8y ago
  No, they asked for a quiet one.
  - jonhendry18 8y ago
    Wire up a fan speed control.
- gmueckl 8y ago
  That thing is upgradeable. Just replace the boy wih a new one. Just plug the cables. No screwdriver required! Who cares that 50% of the components in both boxes are functionally identical? Certainly not all the not overly technical folks out there.
yellow_postit 8y ago
What % can be upgraded? This seems like a self fulfilling prophecy, just like mobile phones have moved towards non-user serviceable batteries. Great way to bootstrap an accessory ecosystem into existence.
awalton 8y ago
> I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... Some huge percentage of that is because many if not most laptops shipping today have wired everything down. You can't even update the Wifi chip in most laptops today, even though the whole reason we put Wifi on a daughtercard in the first place is because we knew the standards were going to have to move... Meanwhile, I'm typing this from a five year old laptop that I would have happily upgraded by adding more RAM if possible, and I know a lot of people that would be more than happy to do the same, since CPU technology hasn't really been improving in leaps and bounds and neither has laptop design in the past five years. Let's not be afraid to call it what it is: It's planned obsolescence. They want you to have to buy a new one in 18 months when they ship version 2.
- z3phyr 8y ago
  Why is this comment being down voted?
  - aikinai 8y ago
    Because it’s intentionally obtuse to assume the only reason you would ever sacrifice upgradeability is for planned obsolescence.
    - RealityVoid 8y ago
      But is it really far fetched? I am certain some people somewhere have considered this a big plus and weighted in their decision more than perhaps many of the other reasons for making HW impossible to upgrade.
      - mitchty 8y ago
        > But is it really far fetched? Yes, making things upgradeable generally adds weight and size to components. Sockets aren't "free", calling it planned obsolescence is absurd. They've been designed to have wired in components for a reason. You may not agree with that reason, say size constraints, but that is the constraints it was designed under. Weighting any decision is: how much will this cost our design? (note, cost here is not just money, its time, size, weight, manufacturing cost, complexity, etc...) Upgradeability is a feature, if nobody is willing to pay for it, guess what will happen to the feature? Same thing as happened to our own species tails, they became obsolete.
batrat 8y ago
I work in a PC environment with 2k+ clients and even more side customers. 90% of PC customers upgrade their old laptops with more ram and SSD. Also some upgrade their network card, replace the dvd with a HDD/SSD, etc. Because the CPU is not a problem and no noticeable difference in performance from generation to generation, makes no damn sense to replace their laptops.
- overcast 8y ago
  That's just some silly underspeced nonsense then. I have a PC environment of 5000, and it's definitely in the single digits. PC's are speced appropriately prior to purchase, with a lifetime of 5 years. Sure occasionally users will request, and IT will approve an upgrade based on individual demands. But who the hell has time to upgrade 90% of the machines, after you've already spent the time migrating / deploying them? At 5 years, you're already turning over 20% of the environment yearly.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    > I have a PC environment of 5000, and it's definitely in the single digits. PC's are speced appropriately prior to purchase, with a lifetime of 5 years You get easily get more than 5yr at less cost if you spec for upgrade ability up front (good CPU + motherboard specs) and then do a mid lifecycle ram, storage, etc upgrade. Rolling upgrades can save even more money if done properly because the hardware coming out of use becomes your service parts for the stuff that's getting up there in age. Regardless, the best solution is whatever fits your specific needs best.
    - overcast 8y ago
      Of course you can, but that's not how depreciated assets work in the corporate world. Especially when warranty/support ends after 5 years with companies like Dell.
      - ravonus 8y ago
        I agree... Its a laptop. 5 year refresh cycle is plenty time for the device. Your looking at a few hundred dollars to get small gains to keep a device running an extra year or two. When by that time the market will have things 90% better ha.
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
> I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... You're right, they don't. They ask someone else to do it. So, I'd bet your number is way off.
jclardy 8y ago
I think the gain is in footprint size and noise levels. I have a Sonnet eGPU box, and it is pretty massive, nearly the size of a microATX case. It also has a fan on the box and the fan of the GPU cooler itself. This design looks a lot smaller, and I'm sure it is a lot quieter as well. If you don't want those things and do want upgradability there are plenty of other options available already.
Teknoman117 8y ago
Even with the chunky laptops, I only ever really upgraded the wifi card, ram, and storage...

jonplackett 8y ago

Reason Apple make upgrades impossible is so they can charge ridiculous prices for their built in upgrades. the new mac has a 4TB SSD option for £2800. You can buy a 4TB top of the range samsung SSD for £800. £2000 profit is a good motivation for sticking stuff down.

itsdrewmiller 8y ago
SATA SSDs are not top of the line - a 4TB nvme card is more like $3k: https://www.amazon.com/HighPoint-rSSD7101A-4TB-NVMe-Drive/dp/B077SYWL4D/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1531506985&sr=1-17&keywords=4tb+ssd+nvme https://www.amazon.com/HighPoint-rSSD7101A-4TB-NVMe-Drive/dp... The samsung SSDs have about 15% the read speed Apple is advertising.
- Zephyreks 8y ago
  Compare the HP EX920 (1TB for $300 on sale) to the SSD in the... 15" MBP 2017, or something. HP EX920: http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/hp-ex920-asssd.jpg http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/hp-ex... Apple: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Apple/MacBook_Pro_15_2017/asssd.PNG https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Apple/MacB... Same AS SSD benchmark. Now you can argue that since SSD performance increases with size, maybe that's why. Then prove it.

coldtea 8y ago

>Sounds like a perfect fit for the Apple ecosystem. I've read statistics that most users, business or not, don't update anything, even when the hardware gives them the opportunity. For businesses it doesn't even make much sense to update: they can just lease or buy new computers and have them as a tax writeoff. As for most people, they just buy a new PC every 5-6 years (can be 10 years for the less interested in tech), and that's it. It's a small niche of tinkerers and "power users" (actually power tinkerers -- there are users that do much more important stuff with the computers than them that still don't tinker at all) that ever does upgrade stuff. Of course that's includes many people in our tech bubble, but you'd be surprised how many programmers don't care for upgrading and tinkering, and just buy a new laptop every so often. As a programmer myself (CS degree and everything) I know I hate tinkering with hardware with a passion, but I know lots of others that do too. Of course I also know many dev friends and colleagues that do like building custom rigs.