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When I heard about the 2018 MBP today, my initial thought was that I would consider investing the cost and time of migrating from my 2017 MBP just to have a rel

When I heard about the 2018 MBP today, my initial thought was that I would consider investing the cost and time of migrating from my 2017 MBP just to have a reliable keyboard. That Apple prioritized quieting the keyboard over fixing its reliability issues seems crazy to me.

Someone 8y ago
We don’t know whether they prioritized things. They’re more than rich enough to pay two teams working in parallel, and this may have been faster to fix, given the constraints they set themselves (weight, cost, materials, size, etc)
satanicAdvocate 8y ago
Oh, I'd say the calculus here is trivial to comprehend. Apple's external keyboards are high-priced accessories, and are trivially attached to laptops. As with dongles, this is one more nickel to nickel-and-dime you with. If, perhaps, your idea is to resell your laptop, well then you should buy a keyboard, because gee, that will help keep it in good condition. Meanwhile, Apple doesn't really care about the resale value of your device, and would prefer that it have none. Proof of that can be noticed, if you took a minute to consider that the battery is epoxied to the unibody shell. RAM and SSD sticks are soldered to the motherboard, and of course, dongles for everything. The battery, though is the worst of it. That chemical expiration date is inexorable, and well, there's no better way to ensure that you keep buying Apple products from Apple, brand new. So, mean time between failure for these keyboards? Who cares? Won't you be buying according to their upgrade treadmill anyway?
fiatpandas 8y ago
Speculation: I don’t think Apple will be able to fix the keyboard in this generation of MacBooks (generation meaning body type). It’s all about clearances, key travel, tolerances. The system doesn’t have room for a drop in replacement that could leave room for debris. That’s why they gave it a 4 year extension — because that’s probably when we’ll see a newer body generation with redesigned keyboard.
satanicAdvocate 8y ago
Jesus Christ, why was my comment flagged?
ikurei 8y ago
I'll wait at least a few months before believing any of this. Apple being Apple, they might not be telling us whether this new keyboard actually does mitigate the issue. If they said something about this keyboard being more reliable, but then the improvement is not big enough for the bad press to stop, they'll look worse. Not that I have any interest in defending Apple; I'm still using my 2015 MBP and avoiding the new ones, and I use Linux and Windows desktops. It's just that Apple can be really smart with PR sometimes, and I don't believe anything. Not even what they say they didn't fix.
cimmanom 8y ago
My guess is that the expense of the repair program does make it a priority, but that they didn't have enough time between admitting he problem and releasing this round of machines to come up with a new design that both fixes the problem and is low-profile enough to fit in the space allocated. It's only been a few weeks, and they may have already begun manufacture on these (let alone design) at that time. I would guess that the next spec bump will include a fixed keyboard.
pasbesoin 8y ago
Don't forget the lead time in hardware development, not to mention problem identification. The quieting may have been on the roadmap before the dust issue, or its magnitude and PR fallout, became evident. (Not that I'm willing to cut Apple -- or anyone -- slack for lame keyboards.)

Someone 8y ago

We don’t know whether they prioritized things. They’re more than rich enough to pay two teams working in parallel, and this may have been faster to fix, given the constraints they set themselves (weight, cost, materials, size, etc)

satanicAdvocate 8y ago

Oh, I'd say the calculus here is trivial to comprehend. Apple's external keyboards are high-priced accessories, and are trivially attached to laptops. As with dongles, this is one more nickel to nickel-and-dime you with. If, perhaps, your idea is to resell your laptop, well then you should buy a keyboard, because gee, that will help keep it in good condition. Meanwhile, Apple doesn't really care about the resale value of your device, and would prefer that it have none. Proof of that can be noticed, if you took a minute to consider that the battery is epoxied to the unibody shell. RAM and SSD sticks are soldered to the motherboard, and of course, dongles for everything. The battery, though is the worst of it. That chemical expiration date is inexorable, and well, there's no better way to ensure that you keep buying Apple products from Apple, brand new. So, mean time between failure for these keyboards? Who cares? Won't you be buying according to their upgrade treadmill anyway?

fiatpandas 8y ago

Speculation: I don’t think Apple will be able to fix the keyboard in this generation of MacBooks (generation meaning body type). It’s all about clearances, key travel, tolerances. The system doesn’t have room for a drop in replacement that could leave room for debris. That’s why they gave it a 4 year extension — because that’s probably when we’ll see a newer body generation with redesigned keyboard.

satanicAdvocate 8y ago

Jesus Christ, why was my comment flagged?

ikurei 8y ago

I'll wait at least a few months before believing any of this. Apple being Apple, they might not be telling us whether this new keyboard actually does mitigate the issue. If they said something about this keyboard being more reliable, but then the improvement is not big enough for the bad press to stop, they'll look worse. Not that I have any interest in defending Apple; I'm still using my 2015 MBP and avoiding the new ones, and I use Linux and Windows desktops. It's just that Apple can be really smart with PR sometimes, and I don't believe anything. Not even what they say they didn't fix.

cimmanom 8y ago

My guess is that the expense of the repair program does make it a priority, but that they didn't have enough time between admitting he problem and releasing this round of machines to come up with a new design that both fixes the problem and is low-profile enough to fit in the space allocated. It's only been a few weeks, and they may have already begun manufacture on these (let alone design) at that time. I would guess that the next spec bump will include a fixed keyboard.

pasbesoin 8y ago

Don't forget the lead time in hardware development, not to mention problem identification. The quieting may have been on the roadmap before the dust issue, or its magnitude and PR fallout, became evident. (Not that I'm willing to cut Apple -- or anyone -- slack for lame keyboards.)