6 ms·

In my experience, most of the people (not all, but most) who complain about the TouchBar haven't actually even used one for any significant period of time. It'

In my experience, most of the people (not all, but most) who complain about the TouchBar haven't actually even used one for any significant period of time. It's definitely trendy.

clhodapp 8y ago
There's quite a bit of selection bias because people who don't want a touchbar generally have a strong enough opinion on it that they aren't buying computers with touchbars.
reificator 8y ago
I don't need to use one to know that I already resent the one backlit screen. I don't need or want another. More flexible is great, sliding for volume is great, I have no conceptual problems with the touchbar except that I don't want another screen.
- eridius 8y ago
  It's a mostly-black screen with fairly low brightness. I'm not in the habit of sitting in a pitch-black room on my laptop, so I can't tell you how it looks there, but in my everyday use it hasn't been even the remotest problem.
  - stouset 8y ago
    I can’t say I have ever noticed the light from the Touch Bar at night, and I’ve had this laptop since they first came out. It’s so much dimmer than the screen it’s a complete non-issue. I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind. And I say this as someone who was excited by the possibilities of the Touch Bar but have so far been underwhelmed and wants to go back to the physical keys.
    - reificator 8y ago
      Not once in this conversation have I insulted you or anyone else. Not once in this conversation have I dismissed your needs and wants. I acknowledge that there are benefits to it that for some outweigh the loss of tactile feedback or addition of a second screen. Does it really help the conversation to say things like this? > I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind
      - eridius 8y ago
        You've expressed a concern about having a second screen, but the concern seems to be unfounded. The parent is dismissing you because it appears that you're manufacturing a reason to hate on the touchbar and have already stated that you believe you don't even need to try it out to determine whether your concern is valid. If you're not willing to consider that your concern is unfounded, then you shouldn't be offended when other people dismiss your concern.
        reificator 8y ago
        I tape over the LED power indicator on my monitor, I have the screen disabled when not in use on my microwave oven, I disable the charging light on android devices, and I even cover the indicator on my refrigerator that tells you whether it's going to dispense ice or water. Trust me, for me, it's not an unfounded concern.
        eridius 8y ago
        Everything you’ve described are lights that can shine in the dark. But that’s not what the TouchBar is. The TouchBar can only be seen when the laptop screen can be seen, and is really dim (certainly dimmer than the laptop screen). The TouchBar can’t ever be a light shining in the darkness because it would always be drowned out by the laptop screen.
        8y ago
  - SyneRyder 8y ago
    >I'm not in the habit of sitting in a pitch-black room on my laptop, so I can't tell you how it looks there... The one situation I can imagine the Touchbar brightness concerning me is when I'm on a plane. They always turn the cabin lights out, and I'm aware that I need to turn the brightness right down on my laptop when I'm in economy class, so I don't bother those around me. A quiet keyboard is also important on a plane. I've not used newer Macs except in the store, so I don't know if the touchbar brightness is actually an issue or not. I definitely like my physical volume buttons for making sure my laptop is muted while flying though.
barrongineer 8y ago
I'm at the 6 month mark on a 2017 15in and I still dislike it. It's not that its terrible...it's just worse than the function / media keys. Its a step backwards. Perhaps if the touchbar was in addition to the old function row I wouldnt mind it as much.
- DennisAleynikov 8y ago
  in system settings under keyboard you can set it to only show the function keys and act only as a row of keys (similar to how it runs while bootcamped into windows)
  - kcanini 8y ago
    That's how I've set mine up, but even that mode is significantly worse than having physical keys, due to the lack of tactile feedback. I still accidentally touch the software keys without intending to several times per day, and I can't press them without looking at them to confirm that I'm touching the correct one.
    - hackujin 8y ago
      Same. My typing precision has gone down due to a lack of tactile feedback with button shapes and what not.
  - grincho 8y ago
    You can set that up only per application, and you can't do anything fast like dragging all your apps into the window. You have to click the + button once for every app on your machine and manually select it from an Open dialog. And the dialog doesn't remember the last directory used. It's utterly hostile.
hackujin 8y ago
I was given an MBP with a touchbar when I contracted with Comcast for 10 months. Hated it. My personal laptop is MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014). I will NEVER EVER pay with my own money for a touchbar mac book. My number one rule when getting a laptop is a good keyboard. Period. Plus the USB-C drivers for external displays in the new mac books is complete trash. Misaligned windows, constantly forgetting window positions, occasionally completely not working. The MBP line of computers keeps on getting worse and worse.
cytzol 8y ago
I’ve got an issue with the Touch Bar that, as far as I can tell, only I am experiencing: Take your MacBook Pro, put it in a room indoors, and flick the lights on and off in that room several times a second. You’ll notice high CPU usage on a process called “TouchBarServer”, as it tries to adjust itself to the changing light levels so it can display its screen. For some reason, as it does this, it lags the entire rest of the computer: scrolling will freeze every couple of seconds, clicks won’t register, the mouse will lag, and keystrokes will just be ignored. Why would you do this, you might ask? I work on trains a lot, and I get this same flicker effect as the trees by the tracks go past. As they pass the windows of the train, it’s like a bright light source is being rapidly turned on and off. I don’t ever use the Touch Bar — nor did I want one — but merely having one renders my laptop unusably slow for two hours every day. I hate this computer.
- eridius 8y ago
  That sounds both very frustrating, and quite bizarre. I can't imagine why ambient light sensing would need to peg the CPU ever. If you haven't done so already, I strongly encourage you to file a bug report with Apple at https://bugreport.apple.com https://bugreport.apple.com
  - cytzol 8y ago
    I have filed a bug report. But yeah, it’s crazy that one part of the machine makes all the rest of it slow down! There was a time before I figured out it was the Touch Bar when I thought it was _moving fast_ that was making it lag (because it didn’t happen when the train stopped at stations). I was paranoid that it was trying to keep tabs on my location... so it could be worse, I guess.
- adpirz 8y ago
  This is fascinating, but wouldn't this be the case on older MBPs since they have ambient light sensors?
  - cytzol 8y ago
    I’m not sure, but for what it’s worth, I’ve got “Automatically adjust brightness” unchecked in System Preferences. So either it’s just ignoring that option, or it’s using some secondary light sensor.
tomlagier 8y ago
God, I hate the touchbar. I constantly brush it, which is particularly frustrating when I'm typing something in Chrome and it accidentally focuses the address bar or creates a new tab. Drives me up a wall! The lack of real function keys is another huge annoyance. Also had a couple keys on the keyboard get stuck. I've had it for a year now and I'd throw it out the window in a second if I thought there was a decent shot I could get a 2015 replacement. I've got a 2015 for personal use and a 2016 for work and I can honestly say that at the end of the day I'm thrilled to work on a machine that doesn't get in my way. They had it so right and really, really dropped the ball for me. I'd absolutely buy a new $3000 MBP if it was the new specs inside the 2015 body. As-is, I think my next machine will be Windows.
jdhendrickson 8y ago
Is six months long enough for my hate to be valid? I actually had my place of employment take it back and started working out of my retina MBP again. I'm considering buying a Windows laptop for the first time.

In my experience, most of the people (not all, but most) who complain about the TouchBar haven't actually even used one for any significant period of time. It's definitely trendy.

clhodapp 8y ago

There's quite a bit of selection bias because people who don't want a touchbar generally have a strong enough opinion on it that they aren't buying computers with touchbars.

reificator 8y ago

I don't need to use one to know that I already resent the one backlit screen. I don't need or want another. More flexible is great, sliding for volume is great, I have no conceptual problems with the touchbar except that I don't want another screen.

eridius 8y ago
It's a mostly-black screen with fairly low brightness. I'm not in the habit of sitting in a pitch-black room on my laptop, so I can't tell you how it looks there, but in my everyday use it hasn't been even the remotest problem.
- stouset 8y ago
  I can’t say I have ever noticed the light from the Touch Bar at night, and I’ve had this laptop since they first came out. It’s so much dimmer than the screen it’s a complete non-issue. I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind. And I say this as someone who was excited by the possibilities of the Touch Bar but have so far been underwhelmed and wants to go back to the physical keys.
  - reificator 8y ago
    Not once in this conversation have I insulted you or anyone else. Not once in this conversation have I dismissed your needs and wants. I acknowledge that there are benefits to it that for some outweigh the loss of tactile feedback or addition of a second screen. Does it really help the conversation to say things like this? > I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind
    - eridius 8y ago
      You've expressed a concern about having a second screen, but the concern seems to be unfounded. The parent is dismissing you because it appears that you're manufacturing a reason to hate on the touchbar and have already stated that you believe you don't even need to try it out to determine whether your concern is valid. If you're not willing to consider that your concern is unfounded, then you shouldn't be offended when other people dismiss your concern.
      - reificator 8y ago
        I tape over the LED power indicator on my monitor, I have the screen disabled when not in use on my microwave oven, I disable the charging light on android devices, and I even cover the indicator on my refrigerator that tells you whether it's going to dispense ice or water. Trust me, for me, it's not an unfounded concern.
        eridius 8y ago
        Everything you’ve described are lights that can shine in the dark. But that’s not what the TouchBar is. The TouchBar can only be seen when the laptop screen can be seen, and is really dim (certainly dimmer than the laptop screen). The TouchBar can’t ever be a light shining in the darkness because it would always be drowned out by the laptop screen.
        8y ago
- SyneRyder 8y ago
  >I'm not in the habit of sitting in a pitch-black room on my laptop, so I can't tell you how it looks there... The one situation I can imagine the Touchbar brightness concerning me is when I'm on a plane. They always turn the cabin lights out, and I'm aware that I need to turn the brightness right down on my laptop when I'm in economy class, so I don't bother those around me. A quiet keyboard is also important on a plane. I've not used newer Macs except in the store, so I don't know if the touchbar brightness is actually an issue or not. I definitely like my physical volume buttons for making sure my laptop is muted while flying though.

barrongineer 8y ago

I'm at the 6 month mark on a 2017 15in and I still dislike it. It's not that its terrible...it's just worse than the function / media keys. Its a step backwards. Perhaps if the touchbar was in addition to the old function row I wouldnt mind it as much.

DennisAleynikov 8y ago
in system settings under keyboard you can set it to only show the function keys and act only as a row of keys (similar to how it runs while bootcamped into windows)
- kcanini 8y ago
  That's how I've set mine up, but even that mode is significantly worse than having physical keys, due to the lack of tactile feedback. I still accidentally touch the software keys without intending to several times per day, and I can't press them without looking at them to confirm that I'm touching the correct one.
  - hackujin 8y ago
    Same. My typing precision has gone down due to a lack of tactile feedback with button shapes and what not.
- grincho 8y ago
  You can set that up only per application, and you can't do anything fast like dragging all your apps into the window. You have to click the + button once for every app on your machine and manually select it from an Open dialog. And the dialog doesn't remember the last directory used. It's utterly hostile.

hackujin 8y ago

I was given an MBP with a touchbar when I contracted with Comcast for 10 months. Hated it. My personal laptop is MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014). I will NEVER EVER pay with my own money for a touchbar mac book. My number one rule when getting a laptop is a good keyboard. Period. Plus the USB-C drivers for external displays in the new mac books is complete trash. Misaligned windows, constantly forgetting window positions, occasionally completely not working. The MBP line of computers keeps on getting worse and worse.

cytzol 8y ago

I’ve got an issue with the Touch Bar that, as far as I can tell, only I am experiencing: Take your MacBook Pro, put it in a room indoors, and flick the lights on and off in that room several times a second. You’ll notice high CPU usage on a process called “TouchBarServer”, as it tries to adjust itself to the changing light levels so it can display its screen. For some reason, as it does this, it lags the entire rest of the computer: scrolling will freeze every couple of seconds, clicks won’t register, the mouse will lag, and keystrokes will just be ignored. Why would you do this, you might ask? I work on trains a lot, and I get this same flicker effect as the trees by the tracks go past. As they pass the windows of the train, it’s like a bright light source is being rapidly turned on and off. I don’t ever use the Touch Bar — nor did I want one — but merely having one renders my laptop unusably slow for two hours every day. I hate this computer.

eridius 8y ago
That sounds both very frustrating, and quite bizarre. I can't imagine why ambient light sensing would need to peg the CPU ever. If you haven't done so already, I strongly encourage you to file a bug report with Apple at https://bugreport.apple.com https://bugreport.apple.com
- cytzol 8y ago
  I have filed a bug report. But yeah, it’s crazy that one part of the machine makes all the rest of it slow down! There was a time before I figured out it was the Touch Bar when I thought it was _moving fast_ that was making it lag (because it didn’t happen when the train stopped at stations). I was paranoid that it was trying to keep tabs on my location... so it could be worse, I guess.
adpirz 8y ago
This is fascinating, but wouldn't this be the case on older MBPs since they have ambient light sensors?
- cytzol 8y ago
  I’m not sure, but for what it’s worth, I’ve got “Automatically adjust brightness” unchecked in System Preferences. So either it’s just ignoring that option, or it’s using some secondary light sensor.

tomlagier 8y ago

God, I hate the touchbar. I constantly brush it, which is particularly frustrating when I'm typing something in Chrome and it accidentally focuses the address bar or creates a new tab. Drives me up a wall! The lack of real function keys is another huge annoyance. Also had a couple keys on the keyboard get stuck. I've had it for a year now and I'd throw it out the window in a second if I thought there was a decent shot I could get a 2015 replacement. I've got a 2015 for personal use and a 2016 for work and I can honestly say that at the end of the day I'm thrilled to work on a machine that doesn't get in my way. They had it so right and really, really dropped the ball for me. I'd absolutely buy a new $3000 MBP if it was the new specs inside the 2015 body. As-is, I think my next machine will be Windows.

jdhendrickson 8y ago

Is six months long enough for my hate to be valid? I actually had my place of employment take it back and started working out of my retina MBP again. I'm considering buying a Windows laptop for the first time.