5 ms·

> I know it's trendy to hate on the touchbar The touchbar hate is not trendy. It's based in specific complaints. If, on the balance of how you evaluate the pr

> I know it's trendy to hate on the touchbar The touchbar hate is not trendy. It's based in specific complaints. If, on the balance of how you evaluate the problems and benefits of the touchbar, it's useful for you, great. That doesn't mean the primary reason people express a distaste for the touchbar is essentially a social fashion.

tjohns 8y ago
I didn't mean to imply that the concerns were unfounded. I know there are real, legitimate complaints with the touchbar. At the same time, I just wanted to point out that there are at least some developers who do prefer it, and that the dislike isn't universal.
- munk-a 8y ago
  So maybe a nice compromise would be having both... having a touchbar that can be customized in addition to a standard set of function keys.
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    Or one model with and one model without. I don't like the touchbar (keys move around and change size depending on context, escape can be triggered by touching areas outside of the escape key, touch bar locks up / crashes) but I'm largely indifferent to it. My primary complaint is the awful butterfly keyboard itself. There's too little travel, the keyboard itself is far too delicate (only took a few weeks for the spacebar to start crapping out on my 2016), and the layout is subpar. My mid-2012 MPB is in need of a replacement, but the butterfly keyboard is a dealbreaker. I'm not thrilled with the touch bar, generally supportive of USB-C (although I miss magsafe), will tolerate the glossy screen and oversized trackpad, and don't give two hoots about the fingerprint reader. If Apple could see fit to provide a current gen MBP with a proper keyboard I'd buy one in a heartbeat. As it is, when my MBP dies for good I'm almost certainly moving to a Linux laptop.
  - mrkstu 8y ago
    That's what I don't understand- there is plenty of room for both, especially on the 15". Just add the Touch Bar strip above the function keys and call it a day...
eridius 8y ago
In my experience, most of the people (not all, but most) who complain about the TouchBar haven't actually even used one for any significant period of time. It's definitely trendy.
- clhodapp 8y ago
  There's quite a bit of selection bias because people who don't want a touchbar generally have a strong enough opinion on it that they aren't buying computers with touchbars.
- reificator 8y ago
  I don't need to use one to know that I already resent the one backlit screen. I don't need or want another. More flexible is great, sliding for volume is great, I have no conceptual problems with the touchbar except that I don't want another screen.
  - eridius 8y ago
    It's a mostly-black screen with fairly low brightness. I'm not in the habit of sitting in a pitch-black room on my laptop, so I can't tell you how it looks there, but in my everyday use it hasn't been even the remotest problem.
    - stouset 8y ago
      I can’t say I have ever noticed the light from the Touch Bar at night, and I’ve had this laptop since they first came out. It’s so much dimmer than the screen it’s a complete non-issue. I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind. And I say this as someone who was excited by the possibilities of the Touch Bar but have so far been underwhelmed and wants to go back to the physical keys.
      - reificator 8y ago
        Not once in this conversation have I insulted you or anyone else. Not once in this conversation have I dismissed your needs and wants. I acknowledge that there are benefits to it that for some outweigh the loss of tactile feedback or addition of a second screen. Does it really help the conversation to say things like this? > I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind

tjohns 8y ago

I didn't mean to imply that the concerns were unfounded. I know there are real, legitimate complaints with the touchbar. At the same time, I just wanted to point out that there are at least some developers who do prefer it, and that the dislike isn't universal.

munk-a 8y ago
So maybe a nice compromise would be having both... having a touchbar that can be customized in addition to a standard set of function keys.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  Or one model with and one model without. I don't like the touchbar (keys move around and change size depending on context, escape can be triggered by touching areas outside of the escape key, touch bar locks up / crashes) but I'm largely indifferent to it. My primary complaint is the awful butterfly keyboard itself. There's too little travel, the keyboard itself is far too delicate (only took a few weeks for the spacebar to start crapping out on my 2016), and the layout is subpar. My mid-2012 MPB is in need of a replacement, but the butterfly keyboard is a dealbreaker. I'm not thrilled with the touch bar, generally supportive of USB-C (although I miss magsafe), will tolerate the glossy screen and oversized trackpad, and don't give two hoots about the fingerprint reader. If Apple could see fit to provide a current gen MBP with a proper keyboard I'd buy one in a heartbeat. As it is, when my MBP dies for good I'm almost certainly moving to a Linux laptop.
- mrkstu 8y ago
  That's what I don't understand- there is plenty of room for both, especially on the 15". Just add the Touch Bar strip above the function keys and call it a day...

eridius 8y ago

In my experience, most of the people (not all, but most) who complain about the TouchBar haven't actually even used one for any significant period of time. It's definitely trendy.

clhodapp 8y ago
There's quite a bit of selection bias because people who don't want a touchbar generally have a strong enough opinion on it that they aren't buying computers with touchbars.
reificator 8y ago
I don't need to use one to know that I already resent the one backlit screen. I don't need or want another. More flexible is great, sliding for volume is great, I have no conceptual problems with the touchbar except that I don't want another screen.
- eridius 8y ago
  It's a mostly-black screen with fairly low brightness. I'm not in the habit of sitting in a pitch-black room on my laptop, so I can't tell you how it looks there, but in my everyday use it hasn't been even the remotest problem.
  - stouset 8y ago
    I can’t say I have ever noticed the light from the Touch Bar at night, and I’ve had this laptop since they first came out. It’s so much dimmer than the screen it’s a complete non-issue. I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind. And I say this as someone who was excited by the possibilities of the Touch Bar but have so far been underwhelmed and wants to go back to the physical keys.
    - reificator 8y ago
      Not once in this conversation have I insulted you or anyone else. Not once in this conversation have I dismissed your needs and wants. I acknowledge that there are benefits to it that for some outweigh the loss of tactile feedback or addition of a second screen. Does it really help the conversation to say things like this? > I am convinced that the only people complaining about this have either never used this laptop or have such sensitive eyes that daytime light would render them permanently blind