7 ms·

Privacy API: Programmable Payments

119 points by doomrobo 8y ago

cocacola1 8y ago
I've been using Privacy for a few years now; pretty satisfied with it.
- kingbirdy 8y ago
  Would you mind giving a few examples of use cases you've found for it? Looks interesting, but I'm not sure what I'd actually do with it
  - doomrobo 8y ago
    Not the parent, but I can give some uses of my own. * All kinds of recurring payments. I pay for email, Dropbox, Patreon, and my VPS with cards that have monthly or yearly spending limits. * One time payments everywhere I don't have an account and don't want an account. I had to pay dues for a university club recently and I went through a super sketchy university website and payed with a burner card. 3 months later I get a "rejected transaction" email from Privacy telling me that someone tried to use my card at a Walmart. This isn't a common occurrence for me but it was nice to not have to cancel my real credit card.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - shashanoid 8y ago
    Allows you to have a cap on any card you create, so you have protection against getting overcharged or if you want to help someone out with purchasing something, you won't give them your original card right? Create a privacy credit card, have a cap on it and give it...etc
  - dawhizkid 8y ago
    I use it frequently too (the chrome extension is great). Best use case is using temporary cards for subscriptions or sites you don't use frequently and don't want to give out your actual credit/debit card.
  - cocacola1 8y ago
    1. If I want to subscribe to something that could have a recurring payment, I use a burner card to make sure that the recurring payment won't go through. 2. Less often, I use it if there's a trial that catches my eye but I don't want to give them my actual info. I use a single use card in this case. 3. On perhaps less reputable sites where I certainly don't want to give my info. Again, I use a single use card in this case. 4. I use it across all my subscriptions because I can easily see how much I'm spending in a given month (specific to subscriptions). The cap and single use is the one of their best features; you can assign it any value you want and if it hits that, it won't allow other transactions. While I'm not familiar with it, I've heard that Citi cards also have the same Virtual Accounts, so you could use that as well.
    - scrollaway 8y ago
      Sounds like it could also be a cool way of giving your kids access to a credit card (and experience with it), without having to open a bank account for them.
  - dwynings 8y ago
    My most common use-case is SaaS trials that require a credit card upfront – I set the limit at $1, so I don't have to worry about cancelling my trial before they autocharge me.
  - igetspam 8y ago
    I use it for everything. I have unique/monthly limit cards: * My kid's swim class has a unique card. * Wife's phone (setup before Google started rejecting their cards) * Cable bill * Netflix * Personal AWS bill * Gymboree * Monthly self-storage Recently closed one-time cards: * Online grocery order * Delivery food order (leave some padding for tip) * Online clothing retailers * Charitable donations paid via CC * Tickets to DisneyWorld * Every penny that goes through PayPal because I don't trust them for a second Literally, anything that we pay for over the phone or online. One place I'm especially happy to have it is my vet. They're really bad at billing. They've double billed me twice. Now I keep a dead card on file (they want a card) and give them a new one with a hard limit every time I have to pay a bill. No more double billing and I can see when they're screwing up.
    - _eht 8y ago
      Do you have any information on why Google would block these CC numbers? I know Google, and many others block VOIP phone numbers for example, to discourage rampant account verification, but I can't think of why they would reject a financial reference number.
      - kingbirdy 8y ago
        I imagine it's to stop people from connecting stolen cards to the service and then generating a bunch of other card numbers that are essentially all stolen. It could potentially allow them to use the stolen card more before it was detected.
sjroot 8y ago
This looks pretty cool. Does Privacy have any services besides the browser plugins? That idea is similar to a couple past projects that didn't last, but this looks very promising regardless. Side note for Privacy's front-end people-minor scrolling issue: https://imgur.com/ic5I3hz https://imgur.com/ic5I3hz
- leetbulb 8y ago
  I use the Android app as well. It saved me in a pinch a few days ago when I had to pay for my doctor visit and was unable to find my bank card.
- cocacola1 8y ago
  I know they have an iOS app.
- _eht 8y ago
  I imagine more services will start popping up with API access on the road map.
- boling11 8y ago
  Thanks for the heads up! Fixed :).
mholt 8y ago
Privacy is awesome - one of the few services I highly recommend to anyone who makes purchases or pays bills online. Slick interface, product just works (except once when I pre-ordered something from Best Buy and that's because Best Buy had a very weird authorization flow that did two charges, instead of an auth + charge) -- and the benefits are great. Best of all, merchants cover the costs, so it's totally free as a consumer (edit: meaning, no monthly fees, etc -- of course merchants have to cover their card processing costs still). Their support is great, too. I do wish their referral or spending perks were a little more enticing but the privacy benefits are still great overall. Will be thinking about how I can effectively use the API... EDIT: Woah, this is REALLY cool: > Similar to the transaction event, auth stream decisioning will allow your system to dynamically approve and decline authorizations. https://developer.privacy.com/docs#auth-stream https://developer.privacy.com/docs#auth-stream I smell a two-factor purchase flow in my future... (edit again: maybe not)
- lisper 8y ago
  > so it's totally free No, it isn't. A hidden cost is not the same thing is a non-existent cost. One way or another, you are paying for this service. Having the money only show up on the merchant's statement does make it a little easier to bury your head in the sand about it, but at the end of the day that money is coming out of your pocket one way or another.
  - mholt 8y ago
    A merchant has to cover card processing fees whether I use Privacy or not: my costs are exactly the same whether I use Privacy or a physical credit card.
    - lisper 8y ago
      That doesn't mean that Privacy is free. It just means that the system is rigged to hide its cost from you, and possibly to make you pay that cost whether you use it or not. But one way or another, that cost is not zero, and you will end up paying for it whether or not you are aware of it. There simply are no other possibilities.
boling11 8y ago
Hey HN! One of the founders here. We're really excited to share this today. It's just a start, but this is something we’ve wanted to release for a long time now :). We believe that data portability and an open ecosystem will be table stakes for all fintech companies. You should have granular, differential control of your data. You should be able to grant access to specific functions or aspects of your financial account without wholesale sharing your account login information. You should be able to verify your identity without sharing other personal information. We ultimately intend for this API to be full read / write capable, including the ability to read transaction data, set rules programmatically, verify identity, create & manage virtual numbers, and transfer funds. That said, security is core to what we do at Privacy.com and this extends to our API. We want to empower people to build applications on top of our API that delight users, without compromising their privacy or security. We would really value your feedback as a user, developer, or information security professional!
- wyattjoh 8y ago
  Would really love to see Privacy.com come to Canada now that Plaid announced support[0]! [0]: https://blog.plaid.com/plaid-in-canada/ https://blog.plaid.com/plaid-in-canada/
  - boling11 8y ago
    We'd love to as well! Unfortunately we don't have a public timeframe we can share yet :(.
- HEHENE 8y ago
  This is wildly cool. I signed up when I saw your original post here on HN and have used it occasionally. In the last week or so I have started using it religiously for every online purchase. Now I'm in the process of moving all my recurring charges to Privacy. You have absolutely delighted this user, and your API is just the icing on the cake. Keep up the great work.
  - boling11 8y ago
throwaway2016a 8y ago
This seems to be consumer oriented but I can see some definite business use cases. Giving employees card numbers for instance and limiting what they can use it for. I know plenty of CEOs of small business that have their credit card copied down by at least a half dozen employees. Then if there is an unexpected charge there is no way to see who it was. I can also see using this to automatically fill out my expense reports for me. Or make sure I don't forget to fill it out.
- corobo 8y ago
  Just in case this doesn't swing that way, I've had my eye on pleo.io for a while for that purpose if that helps any
arisAlexis 8y ago
or you just run a monero node and programm against it for free :)
iM8t 8y ago
Privacy.com is available only for the US. Anything similar available in Europe?
- chrisacky 8y ago
  https://monzo.com/ https://monzo.com/ is UK, but you can't create virtual cards. It's not really an equivalent product.
- worez 8y ago
  I've been looking for a good alternative in Australia and haven't found one yet. If anyone knows one that works in Australia, I'd appreciate it if you let me know.
ikeboy 8y ago
I used it for several months. I closed cards and they let transactions through anyway. When I disputed them, they first ignored, claimed disputes wasn't working when I asked for status updates, denied disputes, then closed my accounts, and refused to refund the invalid charges. I would not recommend them. Their marketing is dishonest, claiming that transactions cannot go through if the card is closed, while in truth merchants are able to "force post" debit transactions even when closed.
- igetspam 8y ago
  Weird. That's the exact opposite of my experience. I've had a number of odd rejections that led me to reach out to a couple vendors (hey Amazon, I'm looking at you!) because there were small transactions attempted against closed cards. I've had a few hiccups for things like creating multiple cards to use with PayPal (there's an avenue for fraud there, apparently) but I've been able to get those resolved quickly every time. I have nothing but good things to say about their offering and it's nice to see they're opening a read API (I'm hesitant about write keys). My only complaint right now is that some vendors (Google specifically) reject their card numbers because they're pre-paid and they've made a decision in the last year or so to stop accepting them. I know for a fact this is a new thing because I'm paying for a Fi account and a Google Music account using privacy numbers. When they finally expire, I'll stop giving Google money altogether.
- boling11 8y ago
  I'm really sorry to hear about the negative experience. This is surprising to me, and I’d be happy to look into the specific case - can you drop me a note at bo@privacy.com?
orliesaurus 8y ago
I use privacy for all my Steam purchases, it's awesome! Thanks Bo!
social_quotient 8y ago
What’s the monetize model for these guys? I’d normally think it was mining the data but with the name privacy I’m hoping not. Do they somehow get part of the merchant fee?
- boling11 8y ago
  Yes, we take a portion of the merchant fee (similar to regular debit or credit cards). We don’t monetize by selling your data.
tombowditch 8y ago
Any UK alternative for Privacy? :(

119 points by doomrobo 8y ago

cocacola1 8y ago

I've been using Privacy for a few years now; pretty satisfied with it.

kingbirdy 8y ago
Would you mind giving a few examples of use cases you've found for it? Looks interesting, but I'm not sure what I'd actually do with it
- doomrobo 8y ago
  Not the parent, but I can give some uses of my own. * All kinds of recurring payments. I pay for email, Dropbox, Patreon, and my VPS with cards that have monthly or yearly spending limits. * One time payments everywhere I don't have an account and don't want an account. I had to pay dues for a university club recently and I went through a super sketchy university website and payed with a burner card. 3 months later I get a "rejected transaction" email from Privacy telling me that someone tried to use my card at a Walmart. This isn't a common occurrence for me but it was nice to not have to cancel my real credit card.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- shashanoid 8y ago
  Allows you to have a cap on any card you create, so you have protection against getting overcharged or if you want to help someone out with purchasing something, you won't give them your original card right? Create a privacy credit card, have a cap on it and give it...etc
- dawhizkid 8y ago
  I use it frequently too (the chrome extension is great). Best use case is using temporary cards for subscriptions or sites you don't use frequently and don't want to give out your actual credit/debit card.
- cocacola1 8y ago
  1. If I want to subscribe to something that could have a recurring payment, I use a burner card to make sure that the recurring payment won't go through. 2. Less often, I use it if there's a trial that catches my eye but I don't want to give them my actual info. I use a single use card in this case. 3. On perhaps less reputable sites where I certainly don't want to give my info. Again, I use a single use card in this case. 4. I use it across all my subscriptions because I can easily see how much I'm spending in a given month (specific to subscriptions). The cap and single use is the one of their best features; you can assign it any value you want and if it hits that, it won't allow other transactions. While I'm not familiar with it, I've heard that Citi cards also have the same Virtual Accounts, so you could use that as well.
  - scrollaway 8y ago
    Sounds like it could also be a cool way of giving your kids access to a credit card (and experience with it), without having to open a bank account for them.
- dwynings 8y ago
  My most common use-case is SaaS trials that require a credit card upfront – I set the limit at $1, so I don't have to worry about cancelling my trial before they autocharge me.
- igetspam 8y ago
  I use it for everything. I have unique/monthly limit cards: * My kid's swim class has a unique card. * Wife's phone (setup before Google started rejecting their cards) * Cable bill * Netflix * Personal AWS bill * Gymboree * Monthly self-storage Recently closed one-time cards: * Online grocery order * Delivery food order (leave some padding for tip) * Online clothing retailers * Charitable donations paid via CC * Tickets to DisneyWorld * Every penny that goes through PayPal because I don't trust them for a second Literally, anything that we pay for over the phone or online. One place I'm especially happy to have it is my vet. They're really bad at billing. They've double billed me twice. Now I keep a dead card on file (they want a card) and give them a new one with a hard limit every time I have to pay a bill. No more double billing and I can see when they're screwing up.
  - _eht 8y ago
    Do you have any information on why Google would block these CC numbers? I know Google, and many others block VOIP phone numbers for example, to discourage rampant account verification, but I can't think of why they would reject a financial reference number.
    - kingbirdy 8y ago
      I imagine it's to stop people from connecting stolen cards to the service and then generating a bunch of other card numbers that are essentially all stolen. It could potentially allow them to use the stolen card more before it was detected.

sjroot 8y ago

This looks pretty cool. Does Privacy have any services besides the browser plugins? That idea is similar to a couple past projects that didn't last, but this looks very promising regardless. Side note for Privacy's front-end people-minor scrolling issue: https://imgur.com/ic5I3hz https://imgur.com/ic5I3hz

leetbulb 8y ago
I use the Android app as well. It saved me in a pinch a few days ago when I had to pay for my doctor visit and was unable to find my bank card.
cocacola1 8y ago
I know they have an iOS app.
_eht 8y ago
I imagine more services will start popping up with API access on the road map.
boling11 8y ago
Thanks for the heads up! Fixed :).

mholt 8y ago

Privacy is awesome - one of the few services I highly recommend to anyone who makes purchases or pays bills online. Slick interface, product just works (except once when I pre-ordered something from Best Buy and that's because Best Buy had a very weird authorization flow that did two charges, instead of an auth + charge) -- and the benefits are great. Best of all, merchants cover the costs, so it's totally free as a consumer (edit: meaning, no monthly fees, etc -- of course merchants have to cover their card processing costs still). Their support is great, too. I do wish their referral or spending perks were a little more enticing but the privacy benefits are still great overall. Will be thinking about how I can effectively use the API... EDIT: Woah, this is REALLY cool: > Similar to the transaction event, auth stream decisioning will allow your system to dynamically approve and decline authorizations. https://developer.privacy.com/docs#auth-stream https://developer.privacy.com/docs#auth-stream I smell a two-factor purchase flow in my future... (edit again: maybe not)

lisper 8y ago
> so it's totally free No, it isn't. A hidden cost is not the same thing is a non-existent cost. One way or another, you are paying for this service. Having the money only show up on the merchant's statement does make it a little easier to bury your head in the sand about it, but at the end of the day that money is coming out of your pocket one way or another.
- mholt 8y ago
  A merchant has to cover card processing fees whether I use Privacy or not: my costs are exactly the same whether I use Privacy or a physical credit card.
  - lisper 8y ago
    That doesn't mean that Privacy is free. It just means that the system is rigged to hide its cost from you, and possibly to make you pay that cost whether you use it or not. But one way or another, that cost is not zero, and you will end up paying for it whether or not you are aware of it. There simply are no other possibilities.

boling11 8y ago

Hey HN! One of the founders here. We're really excited to share this today. It's just a start, but this is something we’ve wanted to release for a long time now :). We believe that data portability and an open ecosystem will be table stakes for all fintech companies. You should have granular, differential control of your data. You should be able to grant access to specific functions or aspects of your financial account without wholesale sharing your account login information. You should be able to verify your identity without sharing other personal information. We ultimately intend for this API to be full read / write capable, including the ability to read transaction data, set rules programmatically, verify identity, create & manage virtual numbers, and transfer funds. That said, security is core to what we do at Privacy.com and this extends to our API. We want to empower people to build applications on top of our API that delight users, without compromising their privacy or security. We would really value your feedback as a user, developer, or information security professional!

wyattjoh 8y ago
Would really love to see Privacy.com come to Canada now that Plaid announced support[0]! [0]: https://blog.plaid.com/plaid-in-canada/ https://blog.plaid.com/plaid-in-canada/
- boling11 8y ago
  We'd love to as well! Unfortunately we don't have a public timeframe we can share yet :(.
HEHENE 8y ago
This is wildly cool. I signed up when I saw your original post here on HN and have used it occasionally. In the last week or so I have started using it religiously for every online purchase. Now I'm in the process of moving all my recurring charges to Privacy. You have absolutely delighted this user, and your API is just the icing on the cake. Keep up the great work.
- boling11 8y ago

throwaway2016a 8y ago

This seems to be consumer oriented but I can see some definite business use cases. Giving employees card numbers for instance and limiting what they can use it for. I know plenty of CEOs of small business that have their credit card copied down by at least a half dozen employees. Then if there is an unexpected charge there is no way to see who it was. I can also see using this to automatically fill out my expense reports for me. Or make sure I don't forget to fill it out.

corobo 8y ago
Just in case this doesn't swing that way, I've had my eye on pleo.io for a while for that purpose if that helps any

arisAlexis 8y ago

or you just run a monero node and programm against it for free :)

iM8t 8y ago

Privacy.com is available only for the US. Anything similar available in Europe?

chrisacky 8y ago
https://monzo.com/ https://monzo.com/ is UK, but you can't create virtual cards. It's not really an equivalent product.
worez 8y ago
I've been looking for a good alternative in Australia and haven't found one yet. If anyone knows one that works in Australia, I'd appreciate it if you let me know.

ikeboy 8y ago

I used it for several months. I closed cards and they let transactions through anyway. When I disputed them, they first ignored, claimed disputes wasn't working when I asked for status updates, denied disputes, then closed my accounts, and refused to refund the invalid charges. I would not recommend them. Their marketing is dishonest, claiming that transactions cannot go through if the card is closed, while in truth merchants are able to "force post" debit transactions even when closed.

igetspam 8y ago
Weird. That's the exact opposite of my experience. I've had a number of odd rejections that led me to reach out to a couple vendors (hey Amazon, I'm looking at you!) because there were small transactions attempted against closed cards. I've had a few hiccups for things like creating multiple cards to use with PayPal (there's an avenue for fraud there, apparently) but I've been able to get those resolved quickly every time. I have nothing but good things to say about their offering and it's nice to see they're opening a read API (I'm hesitant about write keys). My only complaint right now is that some vendors (Google specifically) reject their card numbers because they're pre-paid and they've made a decision in the last year or so to stop accepting them. I know for a fact this is a new thing because I'm paying for a Fi account and a Google Music account using privacy numbers. When they finally expire, I'll stop giving Google money altogether.
boling11 8y ago
I'm really sorry to hear about the negative experience. This is surprising to me, and I’d be happy to look into the specific case - can you drop me a note at bo@privacy.com?

orliesaurus 8y ago

I use privacy for all my Steam purchases, it's awesome! Thanks Bo!

social_quotient 8y ago

What’s the monetize model for these guys? I’d normally think it was mining the data but with the name privacy I’m hoping not. Do they somehow get part of the merchant fee?

boling11 8y ago
Yes, we take a portion of the merchant fee (similar to regular debit or credit cards). We don’t monetize by selling your data.

tombowditch 8y ago

Any UK alternative for Privacy? :(