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To me, there needs to be a differentiation between communicating and speaking. If you broadcast information and another entity receives it, and uses it, that is

To me, there needs to be a differentiation between communicating and speaking. If you broadcast information and another entity receives it, and uses it, that is not dialogue - just reactions. Even if through an evolutionary game the species reaches effective communication (predators, plagues, etc.), and complex feedback loops emerge, resembling a dialogue, there seems to be something lacking - perhaps the ability to query the other for specific information would be a good litmus test for it?

deleted 8y ago
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fifnir 8y ago
> perhaps the ability to query the other for specific information would be a good litmus test for it? Do you know of Alex the grey parrot? It seems to be the only animal that we have recorded actually asking questions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)
ianai 8y ago
I’ve had house cats ask me things plenty. They’ll ask whether they are welcome in my lap by stopping short of stepping on my leg and looking at me for feedback. There’s much more to communication than human spoken word.
- koliber 8y ago
  Agreed. I've had dogs communicate with me by angrily running towards me and barking. This conveyed danger and told me to get out of the way. I've once had a small avalanche do the same as well. People would call me looney though if I told them that the mountains communicate with me, and I listen.
  - mod 8y ago
    The dog conveyed to you its intent to harm you (even if it was being deceitful). The mountain communicated nothing to you. If you were hunted and killed by a mountain lion, it would be akin to the avalanche. It did not intend to send you any message, even if you managed to spot it before it attacked you. The dog fully intended for you to know.
    - koliber 8y ago
      According to one definition of communication, you are absolutely right. There are other ways of defining it. You define it as requiring intent. Fair. I can formulate just as valid of a definition of communication without intent. The way you dress communicates certain things about you, whether you intend to do so or not. My pheromones communicate a lot of things about me, even though I don't intend them to do so. Again, it's not so simple unless you use a single narrow definition and forcefully ignore all other ones (some of which are easier to accept than others).

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

fifnir 8y ago

> perhaps the ability to query the other for specific information would be a good litmus test for it? Do you know of Alex the grey parrot? It seems to be the only animal that we have recorded actually asking questions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)

ianai 8y ago

I’ve had house cats ask me things plenty. They’ll ask whether they are welcome in my lap by stopping short of stepping on my leg and looking at me for feedback. There’s much more to communication than human spoken word.

koliber 8y ago
Agreed. I've had dogs communicate with me by angrily running towards me and barking. This conveyed danger and told me to get out of the way. I've once had a small avalanche do the same as well. People would call me looney though if I told them that the mountains communicate with me, and I listen.
- mod 8y ago
  The dog conveyed to you its intent to harm you (even if it was being deceitful). The mountain communicated nothing to you. If you were hunted and killed by a mountain lion, it would be akin to the avalanche. It did not intend to send you any message, even if you managed to spot it before it attacked you. The dog fully intended for you to know.
  - koliber 8y ago
    According to one definition of communication, you are absolutely right. There are other ways of defining it. You define it as requiring intent. Fair. I can formulate just as valid of a definition of communication without intent. The way you dress communicates certain things about you, whether you intend to do so or not. My pheromones communicate a lot of things about me, even though I don't intend them to do so. Again, it's not so simple unless you use a single narrow definition and forcefully ignore all other ones (some of which are easier to accept than others).