4 ms·

The huge difference is that lions dont put impalas into huge factories, where they feed them afwul food, rob them of any dignitiy, slaughter them by the masses,

The huge difference is that lions dont put impalas into huge factories, where they feed them afwul food, rob them of any dignitiy, slaughter them by the masses, ship them across the globe in order to throw half of it away because it didnt hit the market’s taste of the month!

Lewton 8y ago
They would if they could
- mpfundstein 8y ago
  Who knows... i don’t believe intelligence necessarily implies tendencies for mass murder
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    It's not about tendencies. Intelligence is about being better at getting what you want. A lion wants to eat impala. A smart lion would figure out how to breed them in captivity, and it's only a small step from there to factory farming.
    - joesb 8y ago
      Agreed. Every hunt a lion does imposes fatal risk of its own. The lion could break its leg running and falling in some hole. It could break its teeth getting kicked in the face by the impala. Any of that even could cause it to not be able to hunt any more, and lose its status in the herd. A smart lion wouldn't want to risk itself like that just for a meal.
    - close04 8y ago
      How many smart lions would kill every impala and then wonder if they can switch to grass? :) Farming is after all pretty sustainable. But how about the things that aren't? We're over-exploiting basically every limited resource we have. Ironically we kind of ignore the unlimited ones, like wind, solar, etc. We're cutting down forests like there's no tomorrow and they literally make our oxygen. And worse, sometimes this destruction is totally gratuitous and avoidable. Save for those who really need a couple more millions of $ to "survive".
      - TeMPOraL 8y ago
        > How many smart lions would kill every impala and then wonder if they can switch to grass? Probably a few, then they'd figure out the concept of saving something for later, just as human farmers did countless of centuries ago :). > We're over-exploiting basically every limited resource we have. Ironically we kind of ignore the unlimited ones, like wind, solar, etc. A nit, but the reason we're "kind of ignoring" renewables is because fossil fuels are better. They're much more energy dense. They're easier to handle (just burn to release energy; meanwhile, photovoltaics is a very advanced piece of technology, and we most likely wouldn't have it if we didn't start with fossil fuels). They can be processed for other things - e.g. lubricants, plastics. Fossil fuels are absurdly useful. That's why they're so popular. But we're slowly getting there with renewables, not that both the tech and the will to use it seems to be here. > We're cutting down forests like there's no tomorrow and they literally make our oxygen. And worse, sometimes this destruction is totally gratuitous and avoidable. Save for those who really need a couple more millions of $ to "survive". Here's the thing - it's a social problem at this point. Something I believe smart lions would face too. We've spawned an economy that makes us do these things to survive, even though at least some of us individually realize they're monumentally stupid. Those are hard problems, because they involve getting a lot of people to agree to something that isn't in their immediate short-term interest.
      - deodorel 8y ago
        Actually most of the oxygen is generated by ocean plankton. The trees, sure have their part.
  - 0xTJ 8y ago
    A lion wants to eat. It's not murder, it's feeding. Putting a cow in a field of grass is no different than putting a lion in a field of cow.
kpnbg 8y ago
Hey, you're right. Although another huge difference is that lions didn't evolve to be intelligent enough to learn to farm, invent mathematics, leave the planet etc. We are hunters, and what is going on now is a logical progression of what hunters who got smarter and more powerful would do. It sounds silly but I think that if any other hunter animal evolved like us, it would lead to very similar results. I am not a fan of the mass farming, but there are thousands of variables that lead to our current treatment of cattle and so on.
- fao_ 8y ago
  How many people do you know have left the planet, or could solve a mathematical theorem, eh? The difference is that before, we hunted enough to eat, but not so much that the species died, whereas now we are willing to exterminate a species if it means we can get rid of other versions of us ('Every buffalo dead, is a dead indian'). Seems like we've got more callous and stupid the more this 'intelligence' was displayed.
  - theNewMicrosoft 8y ago
    > How many people do you know have left the planet Not yet but she's planning[?] to leave "soon" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Carson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Carson
    - novia 8y ago
      Mars One is noted as being very short on funding, lacking critical concepts about hardware, life support, electrical power supply, and has been criticized as glossing over logistics, medical concerns, and protection against space radiation.
  - adwn 8y ago
    > How many people do you know have left the planet, or could solve a mathematical theorem, eh? Infinitely times as many as there are lions which can do these things – namely, more than zero people vs. zero lions. Eh.
  - 8y ago
kulu2002 8y ago
Yeah! You are right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
qazpot 8y ago
>> The huge difference is that lions dont put impalas into huge factories, where they feed them afwul food, rob them of any dignitiy, slaughter them by the masses, ship them across the globe in order to throw half of it away because it didnt hit the market’s taste of the month! If they could, they would.
ericdykstra 8y ago
"Awful" food? "Dignity"? It doesn't make sense to judge the lives that these animals have chosen on human standards. Chicken is the most successful bird in the world, and cattle and sheep the most successful mammals. I'd say the symbiotic relationship with humans has worked out quite well in terms of reproductive success.
- adamsea 8y ago
  The OP may not have realized it but “the dignity of animals” is really a parsed reflection of how we treat and see ourselves. In a sense, It’s not about the animals.
fifnir 8y ago
Life feeds on life. No animal would hesitate for a second to eat you, if it could without risk. Even herbivores, have you seen cows/deer/horses eat little chicks? Life then replicates without limits until all resources are consumed and it cannot be supported anymore. We are in fact, (we can't know for sure but I think it's very reasonable to assume) the only species capable of seeing this and MAYBE,hopefully control ourselves before we do the same thing. We are pieces of shit, but at the same time we're the only animal with potential to escape the bad parts of our nature
wruza 8y ago
Most animals live in constant fear, dirt, with parasites and depressing social relationships. I bet that if you got to know few impalas, you would state that most of them are jerks who don’t live long anyway. Lions also may leave their prey’s parts to smaller carnivores. The only difference is that they don’t throw it out since they eat right from the floor and then walk away.

Lewton 8y ago

They would if they could

mpfundstein 8y ago
Who knows... i don’t believe intelligence necessarily implies tendencies for mass murder
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  It's not about tendencies. Intelligence is about being better at getting what you want. A lion wants to eat impala. A smart lion would figure out how to breed them in captivity, and it's only a small step from there to factory farming.
  - joesb 8y ago
    Agreed. Every hunt a lion does imposes fatal risk of its own. The lion could break its leg running and falling in some hole. It could break its teeth getting kicked in the face by the impala. Any of that even could cause it to not be able to hunt any more, and lose its status in the herd. A smart lion wouldn't want to risk itself like that just for a meal.
  - close04 8y ago
    How many smart lions would kill every impala and then wonder if they can switch to grass? :) Farming is after all pretty sustainable. But how about the things that aren't? We're over-exploiting basically every limited resource we have. Ironically we kind of ignore the unlimited ones, like wind, solar, etc. We're cutting down forests like there's no tomorrow and they literally make our oxygen. And worse, sometimes this destruction is totally gratuitous and avoidable. Save for those who really need a couple more millions of $ to "survive".
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      > How many smart lions would kill every impala and then wonder if they can switch to grass? Probably a few, then they'd figure out the concept of saving something for later, just as human farmers did countless of centuries ago :). > We're over-exploiting basically every limited resource we have. Ironically we kind of ignore the unlimited ones, like wind, solar, etc. A nit, but the reason we're "kind of ignoring" renewables is because fossil fuels are better. They're much more energy dense. They're easier to handle (just burn to release energy; meanwhile, photovoltaics is a very advanced piece of technology, and we most likely wouldn't have it if we didn't start with fossil fuels). They can be processed for other things - e.g. lubricants, plastics. Fossil fuels are absurdly useful. That's why they're so popular. But we're slowly getting there with renewables, not that both the tech and the will to use it seems to be here. > We're cutting down forests like there's no tomorrow and they literally make our oxygen. And worse, sometimes this destruction is totally gratuitous and avoidable. Save for those who really need a couple more millions of $ to "survive". Here's the thing - it's a social problem at this point. Something I believe smart lions would face too. We've spawned an economy that makes us do these things to survive, even though at least some of us individually realize they're monumentally stupid. Those are hard problems, because they involve getting a lot of people to agree to something that isn't in their immediate short-term interest.
    - deodorel 8y ago
      Actually most of the oxygen is generated by ocean plankton. The trees, sure have their part.
- 0xTJ 8y ago
  A lion wants to eat. It's not murder, it's feeding. Putting a cow in a field of grass is no different than putting a lion in a field of cow.

kpnbg 8y ago

Hey, you're right. Although another huge difference is that lions didn't evolve to be intelligent enough to learn to farm, invent mathematics, leave the planet etc. We are hunters, and what is going on now is a logical progression of what hunters who got smarter and more powerful would do. It sounds silly but I think that if any other hunter animal evolved like us, it would lead to very similar results. I am not a fan of the mass farming, but there are thousands of variables that lead to our current treatment of cattle and so on.

fao_ 8y ago
How many people do you know have left the planet, or could solve a mathematical theorem, eh? The difference is that before, we hunted enough to eat, but not so much that the species died, whereas now we are willing to exterminate a species if it means we can get rid of other versions of us ('Every buffalo dead, is a dead indian'). Seems like we've got more callous and stupid the more this 'intelligence' was displayed.
- theNewMicrosoft 8y ago
  > How many people do you know have left the planet Not yet but she's planning[?] to leave "soon" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Carson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Carson
  - novia 8y ago
    Mars One is noted as being very short on funding, lacking critical concepts about hardware, life support, electrical power supply, and has been criticized as glossing over logistics, medical concerns, and protection against space radiation.
- adwn 8y ago
  > How many people do you know have left the planet, or could solve a mathematical theorem, eh? Infinitely times as many as there are lions which can do these things – namely, more than zero people vs. zero lions. Eh.
- 8y ago

kulu2002 8y ago

Yeah! You are right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

qazpot 8y ago

>> The huge difference is that lions dont put impalas into huge factories, where they feed them afwul food, rob them of any dignitiy, slaughter them by the masses, ship them across the globe in order to throw half of it away because it didnt hit the market’s taste of the month! If they could, they would.

ericdykstra 8y ago

"Awful" food? "Dignity"? It doesn't make sense to judge the lives that these animals have chosen on human standards. Chicken is the most successful bird in the world, and cattle and sheep the most successful mammals. I'd say the symbiotic relationship with humans has worked out quite well in terms of reproductive success.

adamsea 8y ago
The OP may not have realized it but “the dignity of animals” is really a parsed reflection of how we treat and see ourselves. In a sense, It’s not about the animals.

fifnir 8y ago

Life feeds on life. No animal would hesitate for a second to eat you, if it could without risk. Even herbivores, have you seen cows/deer/horses eat little chicks? Life then replicates without limits until all resources are consumed and it cannot be supported anymore. We are in fact, (we can't know for sure but I think it's very reasonable to assume) the only species capable of seeing this and MAYBE,hopefully control ourselves before we do the same thing. We are pieces of shit, but at the same time we're the only animal with potential to escape the bad parts of our nature

wruza 8y ago

Most animals live in constant fear, dirt, with parasites and depressing social relationships. I bet that if you got to know few impalas, you would state that most of them are jerks who don’t live long anyway. Lions also may leave their prey’s parts to smaller carnivores. The only difference is that they don’t throw it out since they eat right from the floor and then walk away.