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Certain devices are still going to need loadable kernel modules to be supported. For example USB to Serial devices, or custom media devices, and more. I really

Certain devices are still going to need loadable kernel modules to be supported. For example USB to Serial devices, or custom media devices, and more. I really don't expect kernel modules to go away.

1over137 8y ago
How many USB<->serial adaptors are there out there? Since 10.9 (IIRC), they've included their own FTDI driver. I sure hope you're right though. It hasn't happened yet thankfully!
w0de0 8y ago
Exactly right. Often for devices, but also for software (usually enterprise). Here is a list of kernal extensions compiled by the macadmins community: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWrbE8xiau4rU2mtXYji9vSPWDqb56luh0OhD5XS0AM/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWrbE8xiau4rU2mtXYji...
mattbauer 8y ago
I think kernel modules will go away at some point. Having no third party Kexts would increase the security of the OS for in use systems. That's a nice way of saying not all third-party Kexts are created equal. I could see an argument where moving existing hardware Kexts to user space is easier because IOKit uses the libkern C++ Runtime. The OO design of IOKit may lend itself very nicely to the driver approach BarrelFish takes (http://www.barrelfish.org http://www.barrelfish.org). The real hard one to move to user space would be third-party filesystems. That's mainly because of dated VFS architecture used in *NIX systems. I could see Apple completely moving away from that at a future point too.
wichert 8y ago
I found Serial[1] a while ago: a decent terminal application that does not require any drivers / kernel modules to support USB-to-serial devices. [1] https://www.decisivetactics.com/products/serial/ https://www.decisivetactics.com/products/serial/
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  I wonder how that works?
  - blattimwind 8y ago
    libusb or a similar userspace USB construct? You don't need anything privileged to write an USB device driver.
  - pilif 8y ago
    macOS comes with very good USB support in user-space that works without any drivers. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/iokit/iousbinterfaceinterface190?language=objc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/iokit/iousbinterfa...

Certain devices are still going to need loadable kernel modules to be supported. For example USB to Serial devices, or custom media devices, and more. I really don't expect kernel modules to go away.

1over137 8y ago

How many USB<->serial adaptors are there out there? Since 10.9 (IIRC), they've included their own FTDI driver. I sure hope you're right though. It hasn't happened yet thankfully!

w0de0 8y ago

Exactly right. Often for devices, but also for software (usually enterprise). Here is a list of kernal extensions compiled by the macadmins community: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWrbE8xiau4rU2mtXYji9vSPWDqb56luh0OhD5XS0AM/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWrbE8xiau4rU2mtXYji...

mattbauer 8y ago

I think kernel modules will go away at some point. Having no third party Kexts would increase the security of the OS for in use systems. That's a nice way of saying not all third-party Kexts are created equal. I could see an argument where moving existing hardware Kexts to user space is easier because IOKit uses the libkern C++ Runtime. The OO design of IOKit may lend itself very nicely to the driver approach BarrelFish takes (http://www.barrelfish.org http://www.barrelfish.org). The real hard one to move to user space would be third-party filesystems. That's mainly because of dated VFS architecture used in *NIX systems. I could see Apple completely moving away from that at a future point too.

wichert 8y ago

I found Serial[1] a while ago: a decent terminal application that does not require any drivers / kernel modules to support USB-to-serial devices. [1] https://www.decisivetactics.com/products/serial/ https://www.decisivetactics.com/products/serial/

voltagex_ 8y ago
I wonder how that works?
- blattimwind 8y ago
  libusb or a similar userspace USB construct? You don't need anything privileged to write an USB device driver.
- pilif 8y ago
  macOS comes with very good USB support in user-space that works without any drivers. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/iokit/iousbinterfaceinterface190?language=objc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/iokit/iousbinterfa...