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Why do sites insist on default opt-out? Everyone here seems to be blaming Facebook. Certainly, Instant Personalization is a Facebook tool that Scribd used but t

by chime 16y ago

Why do sites insist on default opt-out? Everyone here seems to be blaming Facebook. Certainly, Instant Personalization is a Facebook tool that Scribd used but the core of the matter is Scribd created yet another feature that is opt-out. I consider opt-out a special case of bait-and-switch. You offered X and I signed up for X. Two months later you added Y and change my settings so now I am signed up for X + Y. Since X != X + Y, I consider X + Y to be a new product Z. I signed up for X, you switched me to Z. Bait-and-switch as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't matter to me if Z = 99% of X. Z != X and the switch happened without my prior consent. I'm sure in the short-term numbers game, opt-out wins opt-in by far. Grab as many eyeballs as you can in the cheapest way possible. In the long term, people stop using your services. There's a reason I'll never use RealPlayer even though the company has completely changed since the early 2000s. I just don't trust them anymore. Same with Facebook. I just don't trust them with my data. Same with Google Buzz. Even though I'm comfortable with Google managing emails, I can no longer trust the Buzz team. Privacy loss doesn't have to directly happen to me in order for me to feel violated.

patio11 16y ago
Since X != X + Y, I consider X + Y to be a new product Z. I signed up for X, you switched me to Z. This is absolutely unreasonable to apply in general, because it would devastate the pace of change for web applications, and it is actively harmful to the users as well. You're going to be routinely asking them to make decisions which a) they do not want to make b) they have no information to make and c) they are incapable of making. It will merely confuse and annoy them, and the best possible resolution is that they do what they do any time people put up meaningless repetitive dialogs and click Next Next Next until you stop asking such stupid questions as whether to format C:\ or not. ("Attention, non-technical elementary school teacher in central Kansas. You signed up for Bingo Card Creator revision 1,550. Since you last logged in yesterday, we have made 5 changes to the service. These are summarized as: $INCOMPREHENSIBLE_COMMIT_NOTES. Do you want to consent to these changes, or should we keep a Rails application stuck to r1550 spinning for you until the end of time? Pretend this does not sound scary and that you understand that sentence. It is not scary and you don't understand that sentence, but you have no good way of knowing that.")
- chime 16y ago
  I should have clarified what X and Y mean in this instance. They do not correspond to individual software features but rather the set of expectations that both parties have agreed to beforehand with regards to privacy, access, security, and overall functionality. Every site has terms of use that basically say "you agree to the condition that we can change anything anytime and you cannot do anything about it." So as far as I am concerned as a user, X stands for the entire site experience regardless of the terms or privacy policy. I don't care that your 45 page document said you can add Y anytime. If Y was not there when I signed up and it affects my security, privacy, or accessibilty in a way that I value, you should tell me about it before you opt me in. Personally, you would be the last person I would think of as pulling such shenanigans. Your work and words have shown that you care about your users more than making some extra cents in the short-term. I can't say I feel the same about others.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  Nice answer, but I don't see what argument it's in response to. If the $INCOMPREHENSIBLE changes don't affect the data the user exposes to the world, there is no need to ask permission, and the Pace of Change for Web Applications can continue unimpeded.

by chime 16y ago

patio11 16y ago

Since X != X + Y, I consider X + Y to be a new product Z. I signed up for X, you switched me to Z. This is absolutely unreasonable to apply in general, because it would devastate the pace of change for web applications, and it is actively harmful to the users as well. You're going to be routinely asking them to make decisions which a) they do not want to make b) they have no information to make and c) they are incapable of making. It will merely confuse and annoy them, and the best possible resolution is that they do what they do any time people put up meaningless repetitive dialogs and click Next Next Next until you stop asking such stupid questions as whether to format C:\ or not. ("Attention, non-technical elementary school teacher in central Kansas. You signed up for Bingo Card Creator revision 1,550. Since you last logged in yesterday, we have made 5 changes to the service. These are summarized as: $INCOMPREHENSIBLE_COMMIT_NOTES. Do you want to consent to these changes, or should we keep a Rails application stuck to r1550 spinning for you until the end of time? Pretend this does not sound scary and that you understand that sentence. It is not scary and you don't understand that sentence, but you have no good way of knowing that.")

chime 16y ago
I should have clarified what X and Y mean in this instance. They do not correspond to individual software features but rather the set of expectations that both parties have agreed to beforehand with regards to privacy, access, security, and overall functionality. Every site has terms of use that basically say "you agree to the condition that we can change anything anytime and you cannot do anything about it." So as far as I am concerned as a user, X stands for the entire site experience regardless of the terms or privacy policy. I don't care that your 45 page document said you can add Y anytime. If Y was not there when I signed up and it affects my security, privacy, or accessibilty in a way that I value, you should tell me about it before you opt me in. Personally, you would be the last person I would think of as pulling such shenanigans. Your work and words have shown that you care about your users more than making some extra cents in the short-term. I can't say I feel the same about others.
CamperBob 16y ago
Nice answer, but I don't see what argument it's in response to. If the $INCOMPREHENSIBLE changes don't affect the data the user exposes to the world, there is no need to ask permission, and the Pace of Change for Web Applications can continue unimpeded.