4 ms·

Coming from NYC, it is somewhat surprising to see such anger directed at fire departments. Here, the FDNY seems universally loved.

snowwrestler 8y ago
Consider the impact of 9/11. Prior to that, FDNY was of course well-liked, but not to the incredible degree it is today. The role they played in the response, and the heavy losses they suffered when the towers fell, resulting in a huge outpouring of grief, support, thanks, etc. It's still going today. Other fire departments perhaps benefit a little from that, but not to same degree as FDNY.
gshulegaard 8y ago
TBH I am from the Bay Area, work in SF, and I have never seen ire like that directed at SFFD before. I wouldn't take this example as representative or common.
kenhwang 8y ago
SF in general seems to be more vitriolic towards public services. Might be the entrepreneurial mindset of the region rubbing off.
Gargoyle 8y ago
The LAFD might be the most admired municipal organization in the city. They have a very difficult range of environments and handle them very well.
- jpster 8y ago
  From afar it seems the LAPD has a horrible reputation. So the LAFD must seem like saints by comparison.
callmeed 8y ago
I don't think its anger. It's just that police and fire departments have garnered this "can do no wrong" mindset to the extent that trying to fix what they actually do wrong (waste money) has turned into a political third rail. Fewer fires but larger departments [0], 6-figure trucks driving to fender benders, pension spiking, minimum staffing requirements & huge overtime pay (union-negotiated), etc. Look, I appreciate what first responders do. I just don't think they're above reproach. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/09/04/05316abe-517c-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/09/04/05316abe-...
leesalminen 8y ago
Can confirm. Grew up in the area. Lots of neighbors, family and friends are FDNY. Everyone loves them.
asveikau 8y ago
I'm a transplant, but in my casual observations living here it seems like SFFD is pretty impressive and worthy of respect. I've seen neighbors call for minor issues, the response time has been very good and the calls taken seriously. It's almost as if they're keeping cultural memory of 1906 alive, i.e. they really don't want widespread fires.
curun1r 8y ago
I've got nothing but praise and admiration for the actual firefighters in SFFD. They do shit for out city that no one else wants to do and should rightfully have the same kind of admiration that FDNY gets. But for the people running the department, specifically those in those positions in the early aughts (naughties?) who maneuvered to eliminate dedicated paramedics from the city, I've got nothing but hate. I had friends who were part of ambulance crews who were forced to either transition into being full-fledged firefighters or get let go and have to look for work in neighboring cities. None of them wanted to run into burning buildings, so they all left. It was a nonsensical decision to gain political power and ended up increasing costs and negatively impacting a lot of other highly dedicated folks who should receive similar amounts of praise. First responders of all sorts, whether they be police, fire fighters, paramedics or otherwise, are always taking risks to help the rest of us. I'd hope that New Yorkers would have similar admiration for the folks in ambulances that also put their lives on the line to help their fellow citizens. Now imagine that some fucks at the top of the NYFD decided to fuck over the ambulance personnel in an attempt to gain more political clout while simultaneously wasting a ton of taxpayer money doing nonsensical things like needlessly sending the large 2-driver firetrucks to the scene of medical emergencies. Then how would you feel about NYFD? You'd probably feel the way I do about the SFFD and draw a clear distinction between the men and women who actually put on a uniform and serve their community and the bureaucrats at the top who are wasting our money and destroying our roads.
robszumski 8y ago
There was that time an _on-duty_ firefighter was drunk driving the rig, hit a motorcyclist and everyone involved tried to cover it up, including fleeing the scene. He didn't get questioned by the police for hours. https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Former-SF-firefighter-gets-probation-after-12819416.php https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Former-SF-firefighter-g...
cascom 8y ago
It’s also a function of the job - people don’t hate them because the vast majority of their work is non-confrontational and they don’t pose a risk to citizens (write tickets, arrest people etc) so most people are happy to see them when they arrive somewhere they are needed. Put it another way - I’m willing to guess that a large percentage of people here have had or witnessed a negative interaction with a police officer, and far fewer could say the same of a firefighter or EMT...

snowwrestler 8y ago

Consider the impact of 9/11. Prior to that, FDNY was of course well-liked, but not to the incredible degree it is today. The role they played in the response, and the heavy losses they suffered when the towers fell, resulting in a huge outpouring of grief, support, thanks, etc. It's still going today. Other fire departments perhaps benefit a little from that, but not to same degree as FDNY.

gshulegaard 8y ago

TBH I am from the Bay Area, work in SF, and I have never seen ire like that directed at SFFD before. I wouldn't take this example as representative or common.

kenhwang 8y ago

SF in general seems to be more vitriolic towards public services. Might be the entrepreneurial mindset of the region rubbing off.

Gargoyle 8y ago

The LAFD might be the most admired municipal organization in the city. They have a very difficult range of environments and handle them very well.

jpster 8y ago
From afar it seems the LAPD has a horrible reputation. So the LAFD must seem like saints by comparison.

callmeed 8y ago

I don't think its anger. It's just that police and fire departments have garnered this "can do no wrong" mindset to the extent that trying to fix what they actually do wrong (waste money) has turned into a political third rail. Fewer fires but larger departments [0], 6-figure trucks driving to fender benders, pension spiking, minimum staffing requirements & huge overtime pay (union-negotiated), etc. Look, I appreciate what first responders do. I just don't think they're above reproach. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/09/04/05316abe-517c-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/09/04/05316abe-...

leesalminen 8y ago

Can confirm. Grew up in the area. Lots of neighbors, family and friends are FDNY. Everyone loves them.

asveikau 8y ago

I'm a transplant, but in my casual observations living here it seems like SFFD is pretty impressive and worthy of respect. I've seen neighbors call for minor issues, the response time has been very good and the calls taken seriously. It's almost as if they're keeping cultural memory of 1906 alive, i.e. they really don't want widespread fires.

curun1r 8y ago

I've got nothing but praise and admiration for the actual firefighters in SFFD. They do shit for out city that no one else wants to do and should rightfully have the same kind of admiration that FDNY gets. But for the people running the department, specifically those in those positions in the early aughts (naughties?) who maneuvered to eliminate dedicated paramedics from the city, I've got nothing but hate. I had friends who were part of ambulance crews who were forced to either transition into being full-fledged firefighters or get let go and have to look for work in neighboring cities. None of them wanted to run into burning buildings, so they all left. It was a nonsensical decision to gain political power and ended up increasing costs and negatively impacting a lot of other highly dedicated folks who should receive similar amounts of praise. First responders of all sorts, whether they be police, fire fighters, paramedics or otherwise, are always taking risks to help the rest of us. I'd hope that New Yorkers would have similar admiration for the folks in ambulances that also put their lives on the line to help their fellow citizens. Now imagine that some fucks at the top of the NYFD decided to fuck over the ambulance personnel in an attempt to gain more political clout while simultaneously wasting a ton of taxpayer money doing nonsensical things like needlessly sending the large 2-driver firetrucks to the scene of medical emergencies. Then how would you feel about NYFD? You'd probably feel the way I do about the SFFD and draw a clear distinction between the men and women who actually put on a uniform and serve their community and the bureaucrats at the top who are wasting our money and destroying our roads.

robszumski 8y ago

There was that time an _on-duty_ firefighter was drunk driving the rig, hit a motorcyclist and everyone involved tried to cover it up, including fleeing the scene. He didn't get questioned by the police for hours. https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Former-SF-firefighter-gets-probation-after-12819416.php https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Former-SF-firefighter-g...

cascom 8y ago

It’s also a function of the job - people don’t hate them because the vast majority of their work is non-confrontational and they don’t pose a risk to citizens (write tickets, arrest people etc) so most people are happy to see them when they arrive somewhere they are needed. Put it another way - I’m willing to guess that a large percentage of people here have had or witnessed a negative interaction with a police officer, and far fewer could say the same of a firefighter or EMT...