5 ms·

Typically peak residential energy use is actually early morning and evening. And those tend to be the worst times for solar. Solar is great for businesses and

Typically peak residential energy use is actually early morning and evening. And those tend to be the worst times for solar. Solar is great for businesses and schools, well basically anything that operates mainly or totally during the day.

derefr 8y ago
Most energy consumption in the world is industrial, right? We wouldn't need to have nearly as many power plants (of any kind) if all those power plants needed to do was to sustain residential usage. If you think of it as two power grids, then "the big power grid"—the industrial grid—can be fully powered by solar, and the residential grid, i.e. "the small power grid", is kind of trivial to solve in comparison.
- crdoconnor 8y ago
  Industrial power is often more amenable to demand shifting though. I want my kettle to start boiling now, but aluminum smelters don't really mind if the throughput is highest at 3pm instead of 3am or vice versa, especially if that gets them a cheaper price. Even for domestic users, electric storage heaters, water heaters and electric car charging are all amenable to demand shifting. Over time, those will probably become the largest users of electricity if prices keep plunging. I think there's a lot of money to be made out demand shifting tech, especially if people keep erroneously believing that variability is a problem best solved with expensive lithium ion batteries.
- secabeen 8y ago
  Air Conditioners alone use about 6% of all electricity, so non-industrial is a big chunk: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-conditioning https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-...
- prawn 8y ago
  Not sure if it falls under "industrial" but commercial use (shopping centres, offices, etc) fits with solar brilliantly, and at least where I live, offices are rushing to get panels on their buildings. We had it quoted for our co-working space, and the pay-off time was 3-5 years, which is amazing.
mrb 8y ago
Residential-only energy use is irrelevant. What matters is peak grid usage (ie. residential+industrial) and it is actually mid-day—perfect for solar. For example the UK's real time grid monitoring system clearly shows this peak on the weekly chart: https://i.imgur.com/wTIt5tg.png https://i.imgur.com/wTIt5tg.png (source: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/)
- opo 8y ago
  A weekly chart like that isn’t really granular enough to show that. This chart is a few years old, but it shows that the peak demand was in the early evening: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=830 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=830 The peak demand will also vary at different locations and times of year. As the wikipedia article states: >...It depends on the demography, the economy, the weather, the climate, the season, the day of the week and other factors. For example, in industrialised regions of China or Germany, the peak demands mostly occur in day time, while solar photovoltaic system can help reduce it. However, in more service based economy such as Australia, the daily peak demands often occur in the late afternoon to early evening time (e.g. 4pm to 8pm). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand
  - mrb 8y ago
    Your chart is even less granular than mine (hourly vs half-hourly), and it has a timezone conversion error. The source they use (ISO New England - https://www.iso-ne.com/isoexpress/ https://www.iso-ne.com/isoexpress/) shows the peak of a typical October month to be between 3pm-4pm and not 6pm-7pm: https://i.imgur.com/5rWlnVO.png https://i.imgur.com/5rWlnVO.png (the 3 hours difference is the timezone offset between east coast and west coast.) My chart, if you look closely, has a granularity of one half hour. If you want something even more granular, ISO New England data more clearly shows the peak to be between 2pm-3pm for a typical summer month: https://i.imgur.com/rX1JqoJ.png https://i.imgur.com/rX1JqoJ.png
    - opo 8y ago
      >Your chart is even less granular than mine (hourly vs half-hourly), I think you might have posted the wrong image to imgur. You linked to: https://imgur.com/wTIt5tg https://imgur.com/wTIt5tg I am not sure how you are getting half hour indications on that weekly chart. >...ISO New England data more clearly shows the peak to be between 2pm-3pm for a typical summer month: Yes, that was why wikipedia says: >...It depends on the demography, the economy, the weather, the climate, the season, the day of the week and other factors. For example, in industrialised regions of China or Germany, the peak demands mostly occur in day time, while solar photovoltaic system can help reduce it. However, in more service based economy such as Australia, the daily peak demands often occur in the late afternoon to early evening time (e.g. 4pm to 8pm). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand The EIA web site was talking about October, not the summer months when air conditioning would be used. As another data point, With PG&E pricing, the most expensive hours are noon to six: https://www.pge.com/en_US/business/rate-plans/rate-plans/time-of-use/time-of-use.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/business/rate-plans/rate-plans/tim... I think my point is that statements like "hat matters is peak grid usage (ie. residential+industrial) and it is actually mid-day—perfect for solar." can over simplify the problem. The amount of demand will vary in different areas at different times of the year and even when it is raining, there will still be demand.

derefr 8y ago

Most energy consumption in the world is industrial, right? We wouldn't need to have nearly as many power plants (of any kind) if all those power plants needed to do was to sustain residential usage. If you think of it as two power grids, then "the big power grid"—the industrial grid—can be fully powered by solar, and the residential grid, i.e. "the small power grid", is kind of trivial to solve in comparison.

crdoconnor 8y ago
Industrial power is often more amenable to demand shifting though. I want my kettle to start boiling now, but aluminum smelters don't really mind if the throughput is highest at 3pm instead of 3am or vice versa, especially if that gets them a cheaper price. Even for domestic users, electric storage heaters, water heaters and electric car charging are all amenable to demand shifting. Over time, those will probably become the largest users of electricity if prices keep plunging. I think there's a lot of money to be made out demand shifting tech, especially if people keep erroneously believing that variability is a problem best solved with expensive lithium ion batteries.
secabeen 8y ago
Air Conditioners alone use about 6% of all electricity, so non-industrial is a big chunk: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-conditioning https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-...
prawn 8y ago
Not sure if it falls under "industrial" but commercial use (shopping centres, offices, etc) fits with solar brilliantly, and at least where I live, offices are rushing to get panels on their buildings. We had it quoted for our co-working space, and the pay-off time was 3-5 years, which is amazing.

mrb 8y ago

Residential-only energy use is irrelevant. What matters is peak grid usage (ie. residential+industrial) and it is actually mid-day—perfect for solar. For example the UK's real time grid monitoring system clearly shows this peak on the weekly chart: https://i.imgur.com/wTIt5tg.png https://i.imgur.com/wTIt5tg.png (source: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/)

opo 8y ago
A weekly chart like that isn’t really granular enough to show that. This chart is a few years old, but it shows that the peak demand was in the early evening: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=830 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=830 The peak demand will also vary at different locations and times of year. As the wikipedia article states: >...It depends on the demography, the economy, the weather, the climate, the season, the day of the week and other factors. For example, in industrialised regions of China or Germany, the peak demands mostly occur in day time, while solar photovoltaic system can help reduce it. However, in more service based economy such as Australia, the daily peak demands often occur in the late afternoon to early evening time (e.g. 4pm to 8pm). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand
- mrb 8y ago
  Your chart is even less granular than mine (hourly vs half-hourly), and it has a timezone conversion error. The source they use (ISO New England - https://www.iso-ne.com/isoexpress/ https://www.iso-ne.com/isoexpress/) shows the peak of a typical October month to be between 3pm-4pm and not 6pm-7pm: https://i.imgur.com/5rWlnVO.png https://i.imgur.com/5rWlnVO.png (the 3 hours difference is the timezone offset between east coast and west coast.) My chart, if you look closely, has a granularity of one half hour. If you want something even more granular, ISO New England data more clearly shows the peak to be between 2pm-3pm for a typical summer month: https://i.imgur.com/rX1JqoJ.png https://i.imgur.com/rX1JqoJ.png
  - opo 8y ago
    >Your chart is even less granular than mine (hourly vs half-hourly), I think you might have posted the wrong image to imgur. You linked to: https://imgur.com/wTIt5tg https://imgur.com/wTIt5tg I am not sure how you are getting half hour indications on that weekly chart. >...ISO New England data more clearly shows the peak to be between 2pm-3pm for a typical summer month: Yes, that was why wikipedia says: >...It depends on the demography, the economy, the weather, the climate, the season, the day of the week and other factors. For example, in industrialised regions of China or Germany, the peak demands mostly occur in day time, while solar photovoltaic system can help reduce it. However, in more service based economy such as Australia, the daily peak demands often occur in the late afternoon to early evening time (e.g. 4pm to 8pm). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_demand The EIA web site was talking about October, not the summer months when air conditioning would be used. As another data point, With PG&E pricing, the most expensive hours are noon to six: https://www.pge.com/en_US/business/rate-plans/rate-plans/time-of-use/time-of-use.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/business/rate-plans/rate-plans/tim... I think my point is that statements like "hat matters is peak grid usage (ie. residential+industrial) and it is actually mid-day—perfect for solar." can over simplify the problem. The amount of demand will vary in different areas at different times of the year and even when it is raining, there will still be demand.