3 ms·

Not making them LEO's is one of the ways they get around the 4th amendment, if they LEO with the ability to criminally charge people well now you are making a

by syshum 8y ago

Not making them LEO's is one of the ways they get around the 4th amendment, if they LEO with the ability to criminally charge people well now you are making a Criminal Search and the 4th amendment kicks in. Law enforcement is not allowed to search people in a free nation unless there is probable cause a crime has been committed. personally I think the TSA is a 4th amendment violation as they stand but.... >As long as air travel remains not a fundamental right Freedom of movement is a fundamental Right. Airport security was fine when it was a non-governmental process imposed as a condition of carriage by the private airline companies. It becomes a problem when it is government agents doing to searching. One should not be subjected to searches by government agents as a condition of being allowed to travel

tptacek 8y ago
I don't think this is accurate. First: there are lots of places that actual police officers conduct administrative searches; for instance, any time you go to court. Second: if the TSA finds contraband during a search, you can be arrested for it, and that happens routinely. Yes, the airport police arrest you, not the TSA, but the arrest is based on evidence from the TSA's search. Do a Google search for [administrative search fourth amendment] for more details.
- syshum 8y ago
  >>First: there are lots of places that actual police officers conduct administrative searches; for instance, any time you go to court. This is where we start threading the needle on what a "search" is, the courts rules awhile back that a Metal Detector is not a search and I have never been to a government building where I had to do through more than Metal Detector and they did not Search me beyond that basic metal detection, TSA however is employing much more than simple metal detectors which should be (and I believe is) considered a search, that is not even talking about the extended "pat down" these are far far far far more invasive than anything done at a court house >>Do a Google search for [administrative search fourth amendment] for more details. yes I am aware the Supreme Court has failed in its duty to uphold the constitution as written, and have more or less made Swiss cheese out of every protection from government intrusion in to a citizens life where police and government more or less have unlimited powers today... That has no bearing on my point. The Constitution today is a document with no authority because the Supreme Court has granted the Government soo many exemptions to every single provision to it that we might as well not even have a Constitution... Lucky they are starting, slowly and painfully, to claw back some rights for citizens, but the reality we find ourselves in for the US is one of where the Government has far far far far more power and authority than the constitution plainly allows, the TSA is a prime example of that
  - tptacek 8y ago
    As long as we agree that we're operating in different planes, mine where the Supreme Court matters and yours where it doesn't, I'm comfortable with us agreeing to disagree here.

by syshum 8y ago

tptacek 8y ago

I don't think this is accurate. First: there are lots of places that actual police officers conduct administrative searches; for instance, any time you go to court. Second: if the TSA finds contraband during a search, you can be arrested for it, and that happens routinely. Yes, the airport police arrest you, not the TSA, but the arrest is based on evidence from the TSA's search. Do a Google search for [administrative search fourth amendment] for more details.

syshum 8y ago
>>First: there are lots of places that actual police officers conduct administrative searches; for instance, any time you go to court. This is where we start threading the needle on what a "search" is, the courts rules awhile back that a Metal Detector is not a search and I have never been to a government building where I had to do through more than Metal Detector and they did not Search me beyond that basic metal detection, TSA however is employing much more than simple metal detectors which should be (and I believe is) considered a search, that is not even talking about the extended "pat down" these are far far far far more invasive than anything done at a court house >>Do a Google search for [administrative search fourth amendment] for more details. yes I am aware the Supreme Court has failed in its duty to uphold the constitution as written, and have more or less made Swiss cheese out of every protection from government intrusion in to a citizens life where police and government more or less have unlimited powers today... That has no bearing on my point. The Constitution today is a document with no authority because the Supreme Court has granted the Government soo many exemptions to every single provision to it that we might as well not even have a Constitution... Lucky they are starting, slowly and painfully, to claw back some rights for citizens, but the reality we find ourselves in for the US is one of where the Government has far far far far more power and authority than the constitution plainly allows, the TSA is a prime example of that
- tptacek 8y ago
  As long as we agree that we're operating in different planes, mine where the Supreme Court matters and yours where it doesn't, I'm comfortable with us agreeing to disagree here.