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Won't upgrade a single Apple product in my house until we get a resolution on MacBook Air. We are already evaluating leaving Apple products due to their complac

Won't upgrade a single Apple product in my house until we get a resolution on MacBook Air. We are already evaluating leaving Apple products due to their complacency and won't be upgrading until we see movement on pricing and product development regarding the MacBooks. It's a sad state of affairs when you are waiting 3 years to update and you can't because your vendor of choice refuses to update your product category. Hopefully they sort things out before we commit to a switch in early 2019. We aren't the only ones either we've had friends leave already and some are either waiting on us to blaze a path forward or are already planning to leave the platform. I think Apple needs to seriously consider the long-term impact to their business of losing their major platform advocates; from artists, to developers, to technology savvy people that have a dramatic affect on the spending habits of others. Myself alone have easily and directly impacted about $50k worth of consumer spending, not a lot I know, but I'm also confident I'm not alone and this is a trend that is going the wrong direction. Just thought I'd share where I'm at and those in my circle. Also of you are imminently switching or have switched I'd love to know what you switched too and why.

have_faith 8y ago
MBP price and some hardware issues are causing me to look for alternatives (dodgy keyboards, no non touch bar 15" that isn't gimped). I've been needing to upgrade for at least a year but I don't want to pay £2000 for a keyboard I hate and a touchbar I never want to use. The possibility of using Windows has kept me from switching so far but I can put up with it for a user replaceable battery and a decent keyboard I think.
old-gregg 8y ago
what are you complaining about? the "retina macbook air" is simply called "macbook" now. it's the same great PPI display as everywhere else. the CPUs haven't changed much in 3 years. battery life is the same. why so much drama? what do you want? if anything, apple has gone completely mainstream. you can get all of your computing done in gold now. in GOLD!
- close04 8y ago
  I think most people just want to have a good reason to buy a new Apple device and retire the old ones. I know I am. But personally I'm having a hard time finding one. My 2012 MBP is chugging along just fine albeit showing its age sometimes, also my iPad Air2, or the 2013 iMac. I'm aware that some things have improved but you don't buy a CPU, or a screen, you buy a package. And for every improvement Apple also bundled in some sort of failure. Some in usability, some in reliability, and the overall value proposition is going down.
  - misterhtmlcss 8y ago
    Couldn't agree more. From this conversation one thought has occurred to me; what would a new Air in the current context look like and it gave me chills. Can you imagine a single port Air? Or the removal of it's triangular shape that makes typing long hours on it totally doable versus other chassis designs? I'm just horrified when I imagine the loss of the magnetic power port; which has literally saved me thousands of dollars due to it not being an effective trip wire.
toasterlovin 8y ago
What are you recommending people should buy that is as easy to use and maintain as a Mac?
- misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  I guess the issue is that there isn't anything. That's the core of the issue. We don't have an alternative or we'd all be gone already. I'm certain that when we find a solution it'll be front page news.
symfoniq 8y ago
I completely understand where you're coming from. If you aren't a developer, then some of what I'm about to say won't apply to you, but here's one switcher's perspective: In 2016, I refused to buy a MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar and butterfly keyboard. I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad P50 instead, the first time in 25 years my "next computer" hadn't been a Mac. I'm a developer whose work ends up running mostly on Linux servers. So I tried various ways of replicating my Unixy macOS development environment on the Thinkpad: running VMWare VMs on top of Windows, using WSL, booting Linux natively, using Docker for Windows. You name it, I've tried it. And in truth, my development environment has never felt as effortless as when I was using macOS. Two years in, it just hasn't been a very satisfying experience. There are too many sharp edges at multiple levels (hardware and software). However, there is a counterpoint to this. In January, against my better judgement, I bought a 2017 15" MacBook Pro, with the idea of being more compatible with a client. Unfortunately, I hated that machine even more than I thought I would. I never got used to the keyboard, I got tired of needing a dongle to plug anything in, the battery life was worse than two generations of MacBook Pro before it, etc. And frankly, in so many ways, macOS no longer "just works" the way it used to. So, two weeks ago I sold that machine at a big loss. The most expensive Apple laptop I ever bought was also the worst. So where does that leave me? Pretty unhappy, to be honest. Apple no longer makes any computers that meet my needs or that I want to buy, and I question their commitment to professional macOS users who aren't iOS developers. On the other hand, IMO, Windows still isn't there for professional developers who mostly work in the Linux world. WSL still has a lot of sharp edges, missing features, and lackluster I/O performance, and I've never been able to get my Thinkpad P50 to work acceptably well booting Ubuntu natively. But even if I had gotten it to work acceptably, there are other downsides, like needing Photoshop, Word, and Excel on a pretty regular basis. So I've been running Linux inside VMWare Workstation on Windows 10, which isn't exactly frictionless, either, especially now that VMWare has abandoned Unity Mode for Linux. TLDR: Two years ago, I switched from macOS to Windows/Linux after being an Apple user for more than 25 years. I've not been very happy with the switch, but I also can't see returning to Apple under the circumstances. In hindsight, the Snow Leopard era was the height of my experience as a computer user. It's been pretty much downhill since then.
wmeredith 8y ago
I feel you. I had been a Mac evangelist for almost two decades. That stopped a couple years ago. They don’t make a computer I want to buy/would recommend.
Panino 8y ago
> Won't upgrade a single Apple product in my house until we get a resolution on MacBook Air. Just curious, what's the problem and resolution? (I'm not familiar with recent Apple hardware.) My wife is considering switching from Win8 to OSX for various reasons and the Air looks like the best bet. The show-stopper against buying a Pro was the lack of normal USB and HDMI, and at least the Air has full-sized USB3. There don't seem to be any good options for us. She wants to switch away from Windows but Apple seems to oppose that idea. We might instead get a refurbished laptop and throw Ubuntu on it. (Gotta keep the existing Windows laptop for specific software needed when working from home.)
- thirdsun 8y ago
  The main problem with the Macbook Air is the actual resolution: At 1440 x 900 a non-retina display like this is plain outdated and doesn't fit the premium price tag, even if this is Apple's most affordable laptop. The Air is also somewhat abandoned in recent years and hasn't seen an upgrade for a while. There are people that are fine with the low resolution, however these days I would not buy any non-retina displays/devices and opt for the Macbook if it has to be a small, portable, lightweight laptop. However if you aren't in a rush you should obviously wait for the actual product announcements we're discussing here.
- misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  @panino, thirdsun makes great points and he hits it square on that the point of the issue is the screen. You have to ask yourself what are you buying for $1200 today that you couldn't have bought 3 years ago? To be honest I wouldn't even buy a new one if I was you; I'd go buy a used one about 2 years old. I've actually been doing this the last 5 years, because there is no reason to buy premium new prices when you are almost literally getting the same product with small tweaks over the last 5 years. Aside from the screen though I'd read some of the others below. There is a great long-form from another user and I followed up on my initial comment with further detail; I don't mind repeating myself, but others may not take kindly to me adding in blocks of largely replicated answers.
y_molodtsov 8y ago
I don’t really get that. Macbook Air is essentially replaced by Macbook. Any future “Macbook Air” would have butterfly keyboard, new ports and Retina as well. What do you want them to release?
- misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  A Macbook is a 12" screen versus a 13.3" screen, so this not even a reasonable comparison.
lasgsf 8y ago
Have you tried the Macbook? It is pretty amazing for me who came from the Air. Yeah I get the port issue but I have found out that I rarely use it now beside charging.
- misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  I can't give up that much screen real estate. I need the 13.3" screen that I get. It's the absolute minimum and I shouldn't need to buy a Pro to get a 13" screen; that's not reasonable.
coldtea 8y ago
>Won't upgrade a single Apple product in my house until we get a resolution on MacBook Air. What kind of "resolution"? It's a product. They sell it. At some point the wont sell it anymore. That's about it. As a product it has been superseded by the Macbook Pro on the higher end, and the Macbook on the more lightweight front. It exists to sell inventory at a cheaper price range. End of story.
- misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  Firstly if you are broadly familiar with their product line then you'd know that the Macbook doesn't remotely replace the Air. As a regular user off the Air and those around me; all of whom use Airs except for like 2 people who need the Pro's big GPU haven't upgraded for four big reasons. 1. The screen resolution and quality. 2. Removal of the magnetic locking port and other port related issues that are well noted 3. Not enough RAM 4. Price 4b. If they use the Butterfly keyboard on the Air then that would become an issue as well. Magnetic power port: This is huge and how ironic that MS launched a magnetic 'super' port for their Surface equipment and Mac moved away. I haven't had a Mac hit the floor in 10 years for the very reason this port exists Mac Airs were more expensive when they initially launched, but afterwards they moderated for much of their time int he $1200-$1500 USD range. This is way way less than what's on offer from a Macbook. Lastly, regarding the Macbook itself, the screen size is too small. This is a toy for a more niche use case. The Air is a mobile warriors tool box; it's got ports, longevity and it's just about impossible to break. What people don't often even realize is that the the triangular shape of the Air is a critical structural feature that makes typing easier than most others and also makes it impervious to nearly any reasonable drop. I've got so many dings, gouges and scars from it's heavy usage that I'm always amazed. I genuinely would buy a brand new Air if it was 13", Retina which is so standard now, under $1500 and had 8GB of RAM. This is a completely reasonable expectation. What I would ask for is different. If I could ask I'd want a 14" screen, Retina, option of 8-16GB of RAM and a magnetic port. Two of those things you are know aren't going to happen, but I dream of day when the magnetic port comes back to me; life was much less stressful never having to worry about a $1000 devices safety.
  - coldtea 8y ago
e67f70028a46fba 8y ago
same, long time mac user getting sick of apple's shit i recently bought the system76 galago pro: https://system76.com/laptops/galago https://system76.com/laptops/galago unfortunately I can't drive power and data over the USB-C port, so I'm going to return it otherwise it is great
- nolite 8y ago
  omg.. I think this is what I've been looking for.. how is it so far besides the USB? more details?
  - e67f70028a46fba 8y ago
    works great, and amazing support from folks who know the systems well keyboard is obviously far better than the macbook, and the screen is matte you can get 32GB of memory it's a great rig, i am just unreasonable about wanting a single cable for lappy (which apple introduced two decades ago, btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector)
some_account 8y ago
I'm switching to Matebook X Pro and will run Deepin Linux on it. I look forward to not having that feeling anymore of waiting for Apple. Every apple owner is just sitting there now, waiting... Because you lost your power to pick something else! That should worry you. You become just a passive consumer waiting for a tit to suck on.

have_faith 8y ago

MBP price and some hardware issues are causing me to look for alternatives (dodgy keyboards, no non touch bar 15" that isn't gimped). I've been needing to upgrade for at least a year but I don't want to pay £2000 for a keyboard I hate and a touchbar I never want to use. The possibility of using Windows has kept me from switching so far but I can put up with it for a user replaceable battery and a decent keyboard I think.

old-gregg 8y ago

what are you complaining about? the "retina macbook air" is simply called "macbook" now. it's the same great PPI display as everywhere else. the CPUs haven't changed much in 3 years. battery life is the same. why so much drama? what do you want? if anything, apple has gone completely mainstream. you can get all of your computing done in gold now. in GOLD!

close04 8y ago
I think most people just want to have a good reason to buy a new Apple device and retire the old ones. I know I am. But personally I'm having a hard time finding one. My 2012 MBP is chugging along just fine albeit showing its age sometimes, also my iPad Air2, or the 2013 iMac. I'm aware that some things have improved but you don't buy a CPU, or a screen, you buy a package. And for every improvement Apple also bundled in some sort of failure. Some in usability, some in reliability, and the overall value proposition is going down.
- misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  Couldn't agree more. From this conversation one thought has occurred to me; what would a new Air in the current context look like and it gave me chills. Can you imagine a single port Air? Or the removal of it's triangular shape that makes typing long hours on it totally doable versus other chassis designs? I'm just horrified when I imagine the loss of the magnetic power port; which has literally saved me thousands of dollars due to it not being an effective trip wire.

toasterlovin 8y ago

What are you recommending people should buy that is as easy to use and maintain as a Mac?

misterhtmlcss 8y ago
I guess the issue is that there isn't anything. That's the core of the issue. We don't have an alternative or we'd all be gone already. I'm certain that when we find a solution it'll be front page news.

symfoniq 8y ago

I completely understand where you're coming from. If you aren't a developer, then some of what I'm about to say won't apply to you, but here's one switcher's perspective: In 2016, I refused to buy a MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar and butterfly keyboard. I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad P50 instead, the first time in 25 years my "next computer" hadn't been a Mac. I'm a developer whose work ends up running mostly on Linux servers. So I tried various ways of replicating my Unixy macOS development environment on the Thinkpad: running VMWare VMs on top of Windows, using WSL, booting Linux natively, using Docker for Windows. You name it, I've tried it. And in truth, my development environment has never felt as effortless as when I was using macOS. Two years in, it just hasn't been a very satisfying experience. There are too many sharp edges at multiple levels (hardware and software). However, there is a counterpoint to this. In January, against my better judgement, I bought a 2017 15" MacBook Pro, with the idea of being more compatible with a client. Unfortunately, I hated that machine even more than I thought I would. I never got used to the keyboard, I got tired of needing a dongle to plug anything in, the battery life was worse than two generations of MacBook Pro before it, etc. And frankly, in so many ways, macOS no longer "just works" the way it used to. So, two weeks ago I sold that machine at a big loss. The most expensive Apple laptop I ever bought was also the worst. So where does that leave me? Pretty unhappy, to be honest. Apple no longer makes any computers that meet my needs or that I want to buy, and I question their commitment to professional macOS users who aren't iOS developers. On the other hand, IMO, Windows still isn't there for professional developers who mostly work in the Linux world. WSL still has a lot of sharp edges, missing features, and lackluster I/O performance, and I've never been able to get my Thinkpad P50 to work acceptably well booting Ubuntu natively. But even if I had gotten it to work acceptably, there are other downsides, like needing Photoshop, Word, and Excel on a pretty regular basis. So I've been running Linux inside VMWare Workstation on Windows 10, which isn't exactly frictionless, either, especially now that VMWare has abandoned Unity Mode for Linux. TLDR: Two years ago, I switched from macOS to Windows/Linux after being an Apple user for more than 25 years. I've not been very happy with the switch, but I also can't see returning to Apple under the circumstances. In hindsight, the Snow Leopard era was the height of my experience as a computer user. It's been pretty much downhill since then.

wmeredith 8y ago

I feel you. I had been a Mac evangelist for almost two decades. That stopped a couple years ago. They don’t make a computer I want to buy/would recommend.

Panino 8y ago

> Won't upgrade a single Apple product in my house until we get a resolution on MacBook Air. Just curious, what's the problem and resolution? (I'm not familiar with recent Apple hardware.) My wife is considering switching from Win8 to OSX for various reasons and the Air looks like the best bet. The show-stopper against buying a Pro was the lack of normal USB and HDMI, and at least the Air has full-sized USB3. There don't seem to be any good options for us. She wants to switch away from Windows but Apple seems to oppose that idea. We might instead get a refurbished laptop and throw Ubuntu on it. (Gotta keep the existing Windows laptop for specific software needed when working from home.)

thirdsun 8y ago
The main problem with the Macbook Air is the actual resolution: At 1440 x 900 a non-retina display like this is plain outdated and doesn't fit the premium price tag, even if this is Apple's most affordable laptop. The Air is also somewhat abandoned in recent years and hasn't seen an upgrade for a while. There are people that are fine with the low resolution, however these days I would not buy any non-retina displays/devices and opt for the Macbook if it has to be a small, portable, lightweight laptop. However if you aren't in a rush you should obviously wait for the actual product announcements we're discussing here.
misterhtmlcss 8y ago
@panino, thirdsun makes great points and he hits it square on that the point of the issue is the screen. You have to ask yourself what are you buying for $1200 today that you couldn't have bought 3 years ago? To be honest I wouldn't even buy a new one if I was you; I'd go buy a used one about 2 years old. I've actually been doing this the last 5 years, because there is no reason to buy premium new prices when you are almost literally getting the same product with small tweaks over the last 5 years. Aside from the screen though I'd read some of the others below. There is a great long-form from another user and I followed up on my initial comment with further detail; I don't mind repeating myself, but others may not take kindly to me adding in blocks of largely replicated answers.

y_molodtsov 8y ago

I don’t really get that. Macbook Air is essentially replaced by Macbook. Any future “Macbook Air” would have butterfly keyboard, new ports and Retina as well. What do you want them to release?

misterhtmlcss 8y ago
A Macbook is a 12" screen versus a 13.3" screen, so this not even a reasonable comparison.

lasgsf 8y ago

Have you tried the Macbook? It is pretty amazing for me who came from the Air. Yeah I get the port issue but I have found out that I rarely use it now beside charging.

misterhtmlcss 8y ago
I can't give up that much screen real estate. I need the 13.3" screen that I get. It's the absolute minimum and I shouldn't need to buy a Pro to get a 13" screen; that's not reasonable.

coldtea 8y ago

>Won't upgrade a single Apple product in my house until we get a resolution on MacBook Air. What kind of "resolution"? It's a product. They sell it. At some point the wont sell it anymore. That's about it. As a product it has been superseded by the Macbook Pro on the higher end, and the Macbook on the more lightweight front. It exists to sell inventory at a cheaper price range. End of story.

misterhtmlcss 8y ago
Firstly if you are broadly familiar with their product line then you'd know that the Macbook doesn't remotely replace the Air. As a regular user off the Air and those around me; all of whom use Airs except for like 2 people who need the Pro's big GPU haven't upgraded for four big reasons. 1. The screen resolution and quality. 2. Removal of the magnetic locking port and other port related issues that are well noted 3. Not enough RAM 4. Price 4b. If they use the Butterfly keyboard on the Air then that would become an issue as well. Magnetic power port: This is huge and how ironic that MS launched a magnetic 'super' port for their Surface equipment and Mac moved away. I haven't had a Mac hit the floor in 10 years for the very reason this port exists Mac Airs were more expensive when they initially launched, but afterwards they moderated for much of their time int he $1200-$1500 USD range. This is way way less than what's on offer from a Macbook. Lastly, regarding the Macbook itself, the screen size is too small. This is a toy for a more niche use case. The Air is a mobile warriors tool box; it's got ports, longevity and it's just about impossible to break. What people don't often even realize is that the the triangular shape of the Air is a critical structural feature that makes typing easier than most others and also makes it impervious to nearly any reasonable drop. I've got so many dings, gouges and scars from it's heavy usage that I'm always amazed. I genuinely would buy a brand new Air if it was 13", Retina which is so standard now, under $1500 and had 8GB of RAM. This is a completely reasonable expectation. What I would ask for is different. If I could ask I'd want a 14" screen, Retina, option of 8-16GB of RAM and a magnetic port. Two of those things you are know aren't going to happen, but I dream of day when the magnetic port comes back to me; life was much less stressful never having to worry about a $1000 devices safety.
- coldtea 8y ago

e67f70028a46fba 8y ago

same, long time mac user getting sick of apple's shit i recently bought the system76 galago pro: https://system76.com/laptops/galago https://system76.com/laptops/galago unfortunately I can't drive power and data over the USB-C port, so I'm going to return it otherwise it is great

nolite 8y ago
omg.. I think this is what I've been looking for.. how is it so far besides the USB? more details?
- e67f70028a46fba 8y ago
  works great, and amazing support from folks who know the systems well keyboard is obviously far better than the macbook, and the screen is matte you can get 32GB of memory it's a great rig, i am just unreasonable about wanting a single cable for lappy (which apple introduced two decades ago, btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector)

some_account 8y ago

I'm switching to Matebook X Pro and will run Deepin Linux on it. I look forward to not having that feeling anymore of waiting for Apple. Every apple owner is just sitting there now, waiting... Because you lost your power to pick something else! That should worry you. You become just a passive consumer waiting for a tit to suck on.