3 ms·

I have yet to see any studies of UBI that focus on the Universal part. It should be going to rich and poor alike across a sufficient region to see how it works

I have yet to see any studies of UBI that focus on the Universal part. It should be going to rich and poor alike across a sufficient region to see how it works when people on UBI commingle. This is important because "fairness" in the system is often just about people being treated "the same". If the rich are receiving the same checks as everyone else its hard for them to complain about it.

logfromblammo 8y ago
Does the Alaska dividend count? As far as I know, everyone domiciled in the state gets the same check.
- falcolas 8y ago
  That particular check amount depends on how long you've lived there.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Not since SCOTUS struck that down in 1982. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund > The first dividend plan would have paid Alaskans $50 for each year of residency up to 20 years, but the U.S. Supreme Court in Zobel v. Williams, 457 U.S. 55 (1982) disapproved the $50 per year formula as an invidious distinction burdening interstate travel. As a result, each qualified resident now receives the same annual amount, regardless of age or years of residency.
- tom_mellior 8y ago
  It's not enough to live off it, so it's not a UBI.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    For the subsistence hunter-gatherers that usually barter, it is enough to soften the blow of a lean year, and a nice bonus in a fat year. For everyone else, it represents part of a new chainsaw, or snow machine, or set of fur traps, or some other vital tool of their trade or side-hustle that might be otherwise inaccessible without financing. The point is that everyone gets it, and it is very possible to examine how people spend it, and why they chose to spend it that way. Extrapolation can provide some limited insights as to what might happen if everyone got more in total, at more frequent intervals.
endtime 8y ago
If someone's taxes go up $1000 and they get a $250 UBI check for it, that person could definitely complain.
- ck425 8y ago
  But they might also be able to afford to stop working for a year to say raise young children. I think the solution is to encourage everyone to take advantage of this system.
- abathur 8y ago
  They could, but hopefully they'd be interested in considering how a UBI might broadly restructure social and economic dynamics, and whether that broad restructuring has effects someone sees as a fair trade (or even a great deal) for this money.
- maerF0x0 8y ago
  I was speaking more colloquially. Yes of course they _can_ complain. But I was more suggesting that many people would not complain its unfair without making the connection to their taxes rising. Also, btw many UBI schemes do not intend to raise taxes, but to be a bureaucracy-free distribution algorithm.

logfromblammo 8y ago

Does the Alaska dividend count? As far as I know, everyone domiciled in the state gets the same check.

falcolas 8y ago
That particular check amount depends on how long you've lived there.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Not since SCOTUS struck that down in 1982. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund > The first dividend plan would have paid Alaskans $50 for each year of residency up to 20 years, but the U.S. Supreme Court in Zobel v. Williams, 457 U.S. 55 (1982) disapproved the $50 per year formula as an invidious distinction burdening interstate travel. As a result, each qualified resident now receives the same annual amount, regardless of age or years of residency.
tom_mellior 8y ago
It's not enough to live off it, so it's not a UBI.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  For the subsistence hunter-gatherers that usually barter, it is enough to soften the blow of a lean year, and a nice bonus in a fat year. For everyone else, it represents part of a new chainsaw, or snow machine, or set of fur traps, or some other vital tool of their trade or side-hustle that might be otherwise inaccessible without financing. The point is that everyone gets it, and it is very possible to examine how people spend it, and why they chose to spend it that way. Extrapolation can provide some limited insights as to what might happen if everyone got more in total, at more frequent intervals.

endtime 8y ago

If someone's taxes go up $1000 and they get a $250 UBI check for it, that person could definitely complain.

ck425 8y ago
But they might also be able to afford to stop working for a year to say raise young children. I think the solution is to encourage everyone to take advantage of this system.
abathur 8y ago
They could, but hopefully they'd be interested in considering how a UBI might broadly restructure social and economic dynamics, and whether that broad restructuring has effects someone sees as a fair trade (or even a great deal) for this money.
maerF0x0 8y ago
I was speaking more colloquially. Yes of course they _can_ complain. But I was more suggesting that many people would not complain its unfair without making the connection to their taxes rising. Also, btw many UBI schemes do not intend to raise taxes, but to be a bureaucracy-free distribution algorithm.