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So then, the basic premise here is: Employers: "We can't find good devs/workers!" Devs/Workers: "Well, you don't pay enough!" My advice to employers is what

So then, the basic premise here is: Employers: "We can't find good devs/workers!" Devs/Workers: "Well, you don't pay enough!" My advice to employers is what a lot of companies started doing when there was a gold rush of developers and people were scarce. Find a few average devs or newbies with little or no coding experience, train them into your "system" and then work to promote them up into senior positions and give them a reason to stick around. My advice to devs is get a role at a company, get into the habit of being able to code on a daily basis, grow your skills, then jump ship, or angle your skills for an increase in pay. The important part is coding every day and getting better at your craft. Sometimes getting paid less and acquiring skills is more important for the long run than simply turning offers down because you think it's not a good salary or hourly rate.

commandlinefan 8y ago
> then jump ship But be careful... I did this back in the late 90's; I changed jobs four times in four years, getting a 25-30% pay increase each time. Then one day I tried to do it again, and they told me up front, "we're not interested in hiring you because you change jobs too often". Although I eventually did find something and have kept each job I've had since for at least 3 years, I'm pretty sure my "shady job hopping past" cost me a job opportunity just a few years ago.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  Job-hopping is no sin when you can get a 25% pay increase whenever you do it, and companies will only give their retained employees 2.5% raises (while cutting their benefits by 5%). Job-hopping is no sin when you are an "at will" employee with no contract. Some companies think nothing of firing 10% of their employees every year, and replacing them with fresh faces. Is that not the same thing from the other side of the table? The company who rejects you for job-hopping is explicitly rejecting your self-agency and your right to continually re-evaluate your business relationships, in exactly the same way that companies do when they fire bad employees. You fire bad employers. It is no different. The relationship is work for pay. If they want you to stay, they have to ensure that relationship stays mutually beneficial every week that you work for them. No, don't be careful. If there is no contract specifying otherwise, you owe your employer nothing next week, and they will owe you your pay for this week. That is all. Corporate loyalty is dead, and the corporate employers killed it. It is not our fault that the harvest they are now reaping is bitter in their mouths. If you are offered higher pay somewhere else, start there next Monday, and tell your current employer on Friday that you won't be back next week. We have all done it in this industry. 25% more is too good to pass up, and they know it. Let them be the ones to start offering contracts with severances and notice periods and guaranteed raises and bonuses. That company who won't hire job-hoppers will find that word gets around, and qualified people will simply stop sending their resumes and entertaining interview requests.

commandlinefan 8y ago

> then jump ship But be careful... I did this back in the late 90's; I changed jobs four times in four years, getting a 25-30% pay increase each time. Then one day I tried to do it again, and they told me up front, "we're not interested in hiring you because you change jobs too often". Although I eventually did find something and have kept each job I've had since for at least 3 years, I'm pretty sure my "shady job hopping past" cost me a job opportunity just a few years ago.

logfromblammo 8y ago
Job-hopping is no sin when you can get a 25% pay increase whenever you do it, and companies will only give their retained employees 2.5% raises (while cutting their benefits by 5%). Job-hopping is no sin when you are an "at will" employee with no contract. Some companies think nothing of firing 10% of their employees every year, and replacing them with fresh faces. Is that not the same thing from the other side of the table? The company who rejects you for job-hopping is explicitly rejecting your self-agency and your right to continually re-evaluate your business relationships, in exactly the same way that companies do when they fire bad employees. You fire bad employers. It is no different. The relationship is work for pay. If they want you to stay, they have to ensure that relationship stays mutually beneficial every week that you work for them. No, don't be careful. If there is no contract specifying otherwise, you owe your employer nothing next week, and they will owe you your pay for this week. That is all. Corporate loyalty is dead, and the corporate employers killed it. It is not our fault that the harvest they are now reaping is bitter in their mouths. If you are offered higher pay somewhere else, start there next Monday, and tell your current employer on Friday that you won't be back next week. We have all done it in this industry. 25% more is too good to pass up, and they know it. Let them be the ones to start offering contracts with severances and notice periods and guaranteed raises and bonuses. That company who won't hire job-hoppers will find that word gets around, and qualified people will simply stop sending their resumes and entertaining interview requests.