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For most people? Yes, absolutely. Most people aren't paid enough to cover their needs + enough of their wants to keep them happy, never mind savings. We have a

For most people? Yes, absolutely. Most people aren't paid enough to cover their needs + enough of their wants to keep them happy, never mind savings. We have a very different perspective to the average worker in tech, where we're usually paid well above our needs + many wants.

jdhn 8y ago
I guess my experience differs. Before I moved into the tech world I worked at a law firm for peanuts. When I got a $1/hr raise I went out, bought a bottle of whiskey to celebrate, and then didn't increase my spending at all. Any money I got from that raise went right to my savings account.
- annabellish 8y ago
  When you say "peanuts", do you mean "peanuts relative to what we get paid in tech" or "peanuts relative to the actual average wage"? For reference, the overall average wage is in the range of $6-800/week.
  - jdhn 8y ago
    Both. I started off at $10, got a bump up to $11.
geezerjay 8y ago
> + enough of their wants Placing your wants in check does wonders to keep cash in your pocket. If some people burn through their cash to feed their conspicuous consumption then obviously that doesn't mean they are poor or in need.
segmondy 8y ago
Don't buy that. I think it's the media. There are so many reality TV shows and the participants are living in nice houses, driving nice cars. Even movies are fucking unrealistic, you can watch a movie about someone earning minimum wage, yet they live in NYC, in a massive apartment with high ceiling or drive a nice car. The rubbish on TV, both fiction and nonfiction are so far from reality. Yet most consumers desire for that false reality and spend more than they ought to. Looking at my companies parking lot, I see BMWs, Mercedes, Range Rovers, Escalades, Maserati, Porsches, and tons of new cars, etc I'm in Detroit of all places. We're not getting paid like that! Most people have new iphones, ear pods, the other day I was in a meeting with about 12 people, 9 of them where wearing iwatch. I can assure you that for the majority it's a fashion statement more than a need.
- annabellish 8y ago
  Fancy phones and watches are, given the current state of most carriers, not actually _that_ much more significant an expense than a cheaper device month to month. You can "buy" that explanation or not, but there's a lot of research and evidence backing up the idea that a huge fraction of the western world lives essentially paycheck to paycheck, and it's not because all of them are less financially savvy than you or I, who just happen to get paid well above average too. A good TV and nice phone are not usually the kind of expenses that drive people into having no savings. If I go grab an example from t-mobile... A brand new, shiny iphone x for somebody with good credit is gonna run us $30/m. That's kinda pricy, so let's go a few generations back and get a refurbished iphone 6s plus - they won't let me go to older generations. That'll cost $22/m. So sure, yes, that cost adds up - but $8/m extra in savings is not going to be the difference between somebody living paycheck to paycheck or suddenly being flush with savings. Never mind reality TV - _actual_ reality is that a large percentage of the population of basically every first world, western, developed country is paid at such a level that any raise is just going to go directly back into the economy because they aren't paid enough for savings to be a high enough priority to happen. This isn't financial illiteracy - both of us put a _lot_ before savings, it just happens that once we've done that we still have a bunch left over. Lots of people don't.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    My advice is you make sure you have your savings in gear and then live paycheck to paycheck. That is you fund your 401k (IRA, HSA, ...), and set aside some emergency savings. However unless you have a specific short term goal in mind you should be spending everything else and enjoying life to the best of your remaining income. Of course that $8/month difference isn't much savings, but it is a lunch out vs heating leftovers one day. Or you can eat leftovers everyday, save that $8/month on the phone and use all of that savings to buy membership at a golf club. This is your life and your choice, what do you want?
    - annabellish 8y ago
      >My advice is you make sure you have your savings in gear and then live paycheck to paycheck People don't live paycheck to paycheck by choice, usually. Savings first is not an option if it means not paying rent, bills, or food.

jdhn 8y ago

I guess my experience differs. Before I moved into the tech world I worked at a law firm for peanuts. When I got a $1/hr raise I went out, bought a bottle of whiskey to celebrate, and then didn't increase my spending at all. Any money I got from that raise went right to my savings account.

annabellish 8y ago
When you say "peanuts", do you mean "peanuts relative to what we get paid in tech" or "peanuts relative to the actual average wage"? For reference, the overall average wage is in the range of $6-800/week.
- jdhn 8y ago
  Both. I started off at $10, got a bump up to $11.

geezerjay 8y ago

> + enough of their wants Placing your wants in check does wonders to keep cash in your pocket. If some people burn through their cash to feed their conspicuous consumption then obviously that doesn't mean they are poor or in need.

segmondy 8y ago

Don't buy that. I think it's the media. There are so many reality TV shows and the participants are living in nice houses, driving nice cars. Even movies are fucking unrealistic, you can watch a movie about someone earning minimum wage, yet they live in NYC, in a massive apartment with high ceiling or drive a nice car. The rubbish on TV, both fiction and nonfiction are so far from reality. Yet most consumers desire for that false reality and spend more than they ought to. Looking at my companies parking lot, I see BMWs, Mercedes, Range Rovers, Escalades, Maserati, Porsches, and tons of new cars, etc I'm in Detroit of all places. We're not getting paid like that! Most people have new iphones, ear pods, the other day I was in a meeting with about 12 people, 9 of them where wearing iwatch. I can assure you that for the majority it's a fashion statement more than a need.

annabellish 8y ago
Fancy phones and watches are, given the current state of most carriers, not actually _that_ much more significant an expense than a cheaper device month to month. You can "buy" that explanation or not, but there's a lot of research and evidence backing up the idea that a huge fraction of the western world lives essentially paycheck to paycheck, and it's not because all of them are less financially savvy than you or I, who just happen to get paid well above average too. A good TV and nice phone are not usually the kind of expenses that drive people into having no savings. If I go grab an example from t-mobile... A brand new, shiny iphone x for somebody with good credit is gonna run us $30/m. That's kinda pricy, so let's go a few generations back and get a refurbished iphone 6s plus - they won't let me go to older generations. That'll cost $22/m. So sure, yes, that cost adds up - but $8/m extra in savings is not going to be the difference between somebody living paycheck to paycheck or suddenly being flush with savings. Never mind reality TV - _actual_ reality is that a large percentage of the population of basically every first world, western, developed country is paid at such a level that any raise is just going to go directly back into the economy because they aren't paid enough for savings to be a high enough priority to happen. This isn't financial illiteracy - both of us put a _lot_ before savings, it just happens that once we've done that we still have a bunch left over. Lots of people don't.
- bluGill 8y ago
  My advice is you make sure you have your savings in gear and then live paycheck to paycheck. That is you fund your 401k (IRA, HSA, ...), and set aside some emergency savings. However unless you have a specific short term goal in mind you should be spending everything else and enjoying life to the best of your remaining income. Of course that $8/month difference isn't much savings, but it is a lunch out vs heating leftovers one day. Or you can eat leftovers everyday, save that $8/month on the phone and use all of that savings to buy membership at a golf club. This is your life and your choice, what do you want?
  - annabellish 8y ago
    >My advice is you make sure you have your savings in gear and then live paycheck to paycheck People don't live paycheck to paycheck by choice, usually. Savings first is not an option if it means not paying rent, bills, or food.