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The anti-Chinese sentiment on this thread is T H I C K. May I remind everyone that not so long ago another guy was caught red-handed downloading autonomous veh

The anti-Chinese sentiment on this thread is T H I C K. May I remind everyone that not so long ago another guy was caught red-handed downloading autonomous vehicle IP from a major SV firm to take with him to a new company. He was a white American.[1] I don't recall hearing much about rampant cheating at top U.S. universities as a cultural norm[2] where "note-sharing and consulting teaching fellows was widespread."[3] Or how lack of respect for academic conduct guidelines at top technical universities was so deeply ingrained in the culture that "many students... turned in identical solutions" while seeming confused by the very concept of "what constitutes cheating."[4] I don't recall hearing anecdotes from ex-TAs about how while they are of course encountered tons of honest white guys, frat bros as a group have a reputation for being notorious cheaters that just don't seem to hold themselves to the same standards of intellectual honesty that we do. Must be the high-pressure, status-obsessed cultures they come from. No, the commentary here was mostly focused on just that one white guy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Levandowski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Levandowski [2] https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/1-in-5-harvard-graduates-cheated-in-studies-survey-finds/100009 https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/1-in-5-harvard-gradua... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal [4] https://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/22/technology/scandal-over-cheating-at-mit-stirs-debate-on-limits-of-teamwork.html https://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/22/technology/scandal-over-c...

candiodari 8y ago
The issue is what the result will be long-term of these actions. Currently we allow innovative firms to pay a lot of money for engineers who then develop unique and great products that carry a premium. This applies pretty much across the developed world. If "IP theft" is allowed to occur at any decent scale, every market will rapidly become a race to the bottom, and premium products will simply cease to exist, with a lot of casualties in both the companies involved and the engineers doing development. So what does it have to do with China, and Chinese nationals ? Well simple: the Chinese government has large-scale corporate espionage as a stated goal [1] and has gotten caught red-handed in more than a few cookie jars, for example [2] ... that is seriously at odds with the goals of, frankly, every engineer and company worldwide (even Chinese ones). Note that in most cases, this appears to be not "actual" corporate espionage, but it is actually the state organizing large-scale corporate espionage (and sabotage in some cases), then going out to Chinese companies and actually forcing them to use the stolen data. The predictable response is of course that engineers, companies, management and even unions will start systematically boycotting anything to do with the Chinese state, and that includes Chinese nationals' job prospects. This does not reflect on them, except insofar as they support this disgraceful state policy, but there is no alternative. The ideal solution would be that Chinese people start sabotaging and striking and ... until the Chinese state gets the message. That's what SHOULD happen. After that, trust can be earned again. When the Chinese state starts cooperating and imposing large scale fines on companies caught duplicating products with stolen data, then this can end. Obviously the current situation cannot exist for any real length of time without ever more serious consequences. Now I get it, the Chinese state is trying very hard to confuse acting against their spying with "racism" (funny that given their ethnic and religious policies in China that that is not considered disgraceful. This is Hitler berating countries for not treating Jews well (which, incidentally, he did do, hell, he even had a point)) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_Unite... [2] https://www.pddnet.com/news/2017/10/video-day-four-legged-robot-chinas-answer-boston-dynamics https://www.pddnet.com/news/2017/10/video-day-four-legged-ro...

candiodari 8y ago

The issue is what the result will be long-term of these actions. Currently we allow innovative firms to pay a lot of money for engineers who then develop unique and great products that carry a premium. This applies pretty much across the developed world. If "IP theft" is allowed to occur at any decent scale, every market will rapidly become a race to the bottom, and premium products will simply cease to exist, with a lot of casualties in both the companies involved and the engineers doing development. So what does it have to do with China, and Chinese nationals ? Well simple: the Chinese government has large-scale corporate espionage as a stated goal [1] and has gotten caught red-handed in more than a few cookie jars, for example [2] ... that is seriously at odds with the goals of, frankly, every engineer and company worldwide (even Chinese ones). Note that in most cases, this appears to be not "actual" corporate espionage, but it is actually the state organizing large-scale corporate espionage (and sabotage in some cases), then going out to Chinese companies and actually forcing them to use the stolen data. The predictable response is of course that engineers, companies, management and even unions will start systematically boycotting anything to do with the Chinese state, and that includes Chinese nationals' job prospects. This does not reflect on them, except insofar as they support this disgraceful state policy, but there is no alternative. The ideal solution would be that Chinese people start sabotaging and striking and ... until the Chinese state gets the message. That's what SHOULD happen. After that, trust can be earned again. When the Chinese state starts cooperating and imposing large scale fines on companies caught duplicating products with stolen data, then this can end. Obviously the current situation cannot exist for any real length of time without ever more serious consequences. Now I get it, the Chinese state is trying very hard to confuse acting against their spying with "racism" (funny that given their ethnic and religious policies in China that that is not considered disgraceful. This is Hitler berating countries for not treating Jews well (which, incidentally, he did do, hell, he even had a point)) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_Unite... [2] https://www.pddnet.com/news/2017/10/video-day-four-legged-robot-chinas-answer-boston-dynamics https://www.pddnet.com/news/2017/10/video-day-four-legged-ro...