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Seriously HN, every time these posts come up, it becomes a fest for racists to pin their one off experience with Chinese people onto the entire race of people,

Seriously HN, every time these posts come up, it becomes a fest for racists to pin their one off experience with Chinese people onto the entire race of people, the definition of racism. I do want to hear an ex-Apple employee doing corporate espionage may be, but I don't want to hear about your Chinese grad students. That has nothing do do with the story other than the race of the individuals. I'm almost at the point where I want to just flag articles like this because they have in recent months become a sordid data point pulling down the signal to noise ratio that is usually commendable on this site.

ggg9990 8y ago
If you’re afraid of tigers because tigers tend to bite, is that speciesism? If it is, then is speciesism bad or just rational?
MikeAmelung 8y ago
So if the normally extremely anti-racism posters of HN have concerns about Chinese people, we should automatically assume it’s racism.
- noobermin 8y ago
  There was an article a while back about Chinese cultural attitudes. That might have been tangentially related to "concerns about Chinese people." This article has nothing to do with Chinese culture, it has to do with corporate espionage. It just so happens that this fellow is Chinese and was moving to work at a Chinese firm. That's it. Occam's razor suggests that the person was motivated by greed, either his or the new firm's. Somehow, cultural attitudes about "cheating" being somehow explanatory here is absurd but that has become a key topic in this section. Why?
  - sparkpeasy 8y ago
    Counterfeit goods are made and sold at a scale unseen in the West in China. There are markets the size of football fields hawking these rip offs. How is it racist to suggest the Chinese have a laissez faire attitude about copying others' work?
0xBA5ED 8y ago
>...for racists to pin their one off experience with Chinese people onto the entire race of people, the definition of racism. Not quite. This is stereotyping.
- Buge 8y ago
  What's the difference between racism and negative racial stereotypes?
  - 0xBA5ED 8y ago
    For starters, the comments in this forum are predominantly concerned with Chinese culture, not their genetics. Beyond that, racism requires an assertion of superiority based on genetic traits and, arguably, also requires an act of discrimination.
briandear 8y ago
Perhaps make an argument using some data. Do Chinese companies engage in IP theft or corporate espionage at a higher rate than other countries? Is there a cultural point of relevance rather than race? We don’t hear of many stories of ethnic Chinese Singaporeans or Taiwanese doing this sort of thing — when it comes to Chinese, it’s almost exclusively related to mainland, Communist China. Is it racial to point out that there could be some validity to the argument that mainland/communist Chinese engage in this sort of behavior at a higher rate than Indians or pretty much every other Asian country? Do we know that not to be true? I’m not looking at data, so I don’t know the answer, but dismissing an apparent cultural/political tendency to engage in IP theft or espionage as “racist” is simplistic. HN loves to generalize about Americans and American companies and their practices, yet to do that with China is somehow racist? Regarding Chinese students — how do you think they get permission to study in the US? Chinese people don’t have unlimited freedom of travel. You have to be “approved” before they’ll let you study abroad. That “approval” has a lot to do with the political reliability of that person. So while it is fair to say all Chinese don’t agree with this sort of thing, it is fair to say that the Chinese that end up in US graduate programs represent a set of those who have demonstrated adherence to the CCP mindset. Race doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion; it’s a cultural-political question and, culturally, mainland communist Chinese have a different viewpoint than international IP law upholds. You rarely hear of a British person stealing secrets or British companies blatantly stealing sensitive IP. Is that because it happens far less frequently or because it doesn’t get reported? It seems as if the Chinese way of doing business supports these sorts of situations and it seems that the Chinese cultural attitude towards IP is at odds with the very idea of IP. It’s fair to point that out. Flagging a legitimate story because you don’t like the racial implication is itself racist — you seem to be suggesting that we ought not to discuss this if the perpetrator is of a certain nationality because it might reflect badly on the country and it’s people. Censoring something because you object to the conclusions that might be fairly drawn is to limit the range of intellectual discussion. Despite the seeming cooperation, China views the US as an adversary. It would be naïve to discount the critique of Chinese practices as simple racism.
- abalone 8y ago
  > We don’t hear of many stories of ethnic Chinese Singaporeans or Taiwanese doing this sort of thing... We literally heard a story of a white American doing this exact thing just last year.[1] Nobody complained about America's cultural/political tendencies. Even though there's plenty of academic cheating here.[2] It was just about that white guy. The racism is in the double standard and confirmation bias. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Levandowski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Levandowski [2] https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/1-in-5-harvard-graduates-cheated-in-studies-survey-finds/100009 https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/1-in-5-harvard-gradua...
oceanman888 8y ago
Understand how people from a certain culture do things typically have nothing to do with racism.

ggg9990 8y ago

If you’re afraid of tigers because tigers tend to bite, is that speciesism? If it is, then is speciesism bad or just rational?

MikeAmelung 8y ago

So if the normally extremely anti-racism posters of HN have concerns about Chinese people, we should automatically assume it’s racism.

noobermin 8y ago
There was an article a while back about Chinese cultural attitudes. That might have been tangentially related to "concerns about Chinese people." This article has nothing to do with Chinese culture, it has to do with corporate espionage. It just so happens that this fellow is Chinese and was moving to work at a Chinese firm. That's it. Occam's razor suggests that the person was motivated by greed, either his or the new firm's. Somehow, cultural attitudes about "cheating" being somehow explanatory here is absurd but that has become a key topic in this section. Why?
- sparkpeasy 8y ago
  Counterfeit goods are made and sold at a scale unseen in the West in China. There are markets the size of football fields hawking these rip offs. How is it racist to suggest the Chinese have a laissez faire attitude about copying others' work?

0xBA5ED 8y ago

>...for racists to pin their one off experience with Chinese people onto the entire race of people, the definition of racism. Not quite. This is stereotyping.

Buge 8y ago
What's the difference between racism and negative racial stereotypes?
- 0xBA5ED 8y ago
  For starters, the comments in this forum are predominantly concerned with Chinese culture, not their genetics. Beyond that, racism requires an assertion of superiority based on genetic traits and, arguably, also requires an act of discrimination.

briandear 8y ago

Perhaps make an argument using some data. Do Chinese companies engage in IP theft or corporate espionage at a higher rate than other countries? Is there a cultural point of relevance rather than race? We don’t hear of many stories of ethnic Chinese Singaporeans or Taiwanese doing this sort of thing — when it comes to Chinese, it’s almost exclusively related to mainland, Communist China. Is it racial to point out that there could be some validity to the argument that mainland/communist Chinese engage in this sort of behavior at a higher rate than Indians or pretty much every other Asian country? Do we know that not to be true? I’m not looking at data, so I don’t know the answer, but dismissing an apparent cultural/political tendency to engage in IP theft or espionage as “racist” is simplistic. HN loves to generalize about Americans and American companies and their practices, yet to do that with China is somehow racist? Regarding Chinese students — how do you think they get permission to study in the US? Chinese people don’t have unlimited freedom of travel. You have to be “approved” before they’ll let you study abroad. That “approval” has a lot to do with the political reliability of that person. So while it is fair to say all Chinese don’t agree with this sort of thing, it is fair to say that the Chinese that end up in US graduate programs represent a set of those who have demonstrated adherence to the CCP mindset. Race doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion; it’s a cultural-political question and, culturally, mainland communist Chinese have a different viewpoint than international IP law upholds. You rarely hear of a British person stealing secrets or British companies blatantly stealing sensitive IP. Is that because it happens far less frequently or because it doesn’t get reported? It seems as if the Chinese way of doing business supports these sorts of situations and it seems that the Chinese cultural attitude towards IP is at odds with the very idea of IP. It’s fair to point that out. Flagging a legitimate story because you don’t like the racial implication is itself racist — you seem to be suggesting that we ought not to discuss this if the perpetrator is of a certain nationality because it might reflect badly on the country and it’s people. Censoring something because you object to the conclusions that might be fairly drawn is to limit the range of intellectual discussion. Despite the seeming cooperation, China views the US as an adversary. It would be naïve to discount the critique of Chinese practices as simple racism.

abalone 8y ago
> We don’t hear of many stories of ethnic Chinese Singaporeans or Taiwanese doing this sort of thing... We literally heard a story of a white American doing this exact thing just last year.[1] Nobody complained about America's cultural/political tendencies. Even though there's plenty of academic cheating here.[2] It was just about that white guy. The racism is in the double standard and confirmation bias. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Levandowski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Levandowski [2] https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/1-in-5-harvard-graduates-cheated-in-studies-survey-finds/100009 https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/1-in-5-harvard-gradua...

oceanman888 8y ago

Understand how people from a certain culture do things typically have nothing to do with racism.