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yeah, until the repository maintainers mess up, create two packages that are in conflict, and yet both installed on your system, and now every attempt to update

yeah, until the repository maintainers mess up, create two packages that are in conflict, and yet both installed on your system, and now every attempt to update your software fails because you have out-of-date dependencies that can't be updated due to the conflict. In case you hadn't noticed, I'm a bit bitter about my fedora install at the moment :) That said, I think you overestimate the delta between OSX and the various linuxes. On the Mac, as with linux, if you want to use a package that isn't part of the core system, you should package it into your app/lib yourself. The big advantage that the linuxes have is that they have a far bigger range of packages in the repository than you have in a mac's standard install. But by the same token, you can't have as much confidence that all the libs play well together, because they haven't been tested as thoroughly as Mac OSX's set of libs...

spacemanaki 16y ago
I'm not sure I follow your suggestion of "package it into your app/lib yourself". Are you suggesting manually installing stuff that isn't available from Macports or Fink? Or something else? For the record I'm pretty green when it comes to Unix sysadmin stuff so go easy... I'm genuinely interested - I'm a new Mac user who came from Linux and my biggest issue on the Mac so far is that package management isn't as good as apt. There was a discussion on HN and I was disappointed to find a lot of other people have had the same feeling.
- thristian 16y ago
  For what it's worth, I'm an ex-Mac user who went back to Linux because I missed apt. Of course, I do a lot of hobby programming and general messing around with open-source software; if your use-cases tend more towards pre-packaged software, you might get on perfectly well.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - spacemanaki 16y ago
    I definitely haven't written off switching back to Linux - if I ever do it will probably be because of apt (and maybe xmonad). For now, installing the vanilla versions of stuff like ruby 1.9, SBCL, mit-scheme from Macports, and pre-packaged versions of MacVim and emacs are working for me but that may not always be the case...
  - _delirium 16y ago
    I do sort of both by running Debian inside Virtualbox on my Macbook as a dev environment. I especially like being able to install -dev packages to get header files/libraries into the right places, whereas on OSX, if you want to compile software that depends on anything that didn't come with XCode, it's a mess of manually extracting things and passing pathnames. I don't go the whole way and just install Debian on the machine mostly because having OSX handle things like the touchpad driver, hibernation, wifi, etc., is less hassle, and I also like OSX as a desktop environment (e.g. being able to use multitouch gestures in the browser). But Linux in a VM is definitely a nicer experience imo than fink was, as a way of getting a parallel Unix CLI userland onto OSX.
    - technomancy 16y ago
      > I don't go the whole way and just install Debian on the machine mostly because having OSX handle things like the touchpad driver, hibernation, wifi, etc., is less hassle Have you tried this recently, or do you just say that because it's the stereotype? Because it's been over three years since I had any hardware trouble with Ubuntu. These days I have more issues on my friend's OS X Macbook (no drivers for 3G modems out of the box) than I do on Ubuntu where everything just works.
- bravo_sierra 16y ago
  MacPorts can be hard to grep if you haven't used a BSD before (not that it's great anyway), and Fink is a bit more painful than apt et al. If you're on OSX, the ace up it's sleeve is Homebrew[1]. Definitely the easiest package management system anywhere. [1]: http://github.com/mxcl/homebrew http://github.com/mxcl/homebrew
  - spacemanaki 16y ago
    I'd forgotten about Homebrew but found it again when I went hunting for the earlier discussion on HN... I'll definitely be checking it out soon, thanks.
- mnutt 16y ago
  You should check out Homebrew for Mac. I've found it a little bit more reliable than Macports, and it's actually reasonably easy to create your own packages. To create a new package you can just `brew create http://foo.org/crufty-package.tar.gz` http://foo.org/crufty-package.tar.gz` and 90% of the time the generated recipe just works and the other 10% it requires you to tweak the (quite readable) ruby file. Also, while Homebrew has an official repo, it's managed through git and hosted on Github. So for any given piece of software, chances are pretty good that someone out there has packaged it.
- deleted 16y ago
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- jfb 16y ago
  Homebrew is the best, but I always end up building everything I need from scratch, because I'm paranoid that some idiot package maintainer will require some tiny library that will necessitate building and installing X11, which software is largely the reason I use a goddamn Macintosh in the first place. Also, Interface Builder.
retube 16y ago
fedora- are you talking about rpm? Yes, this is a nightmare- package conflicts are common-place, and generally a real b*tch to fix. RPM was the main reason I ditched Fedora and switched to Ubuntu. In 3 years I don't think I've ever had an install failure or conflict or any problem with apt-get. It's always worked flawlessly.

spacemanaki 16y ago

I'm not sure I follow your suggestion of "package it into your app/lib yourself". Are you suggesting manually installing stuff that isn't available from Macports or Fink? Or something else? For the record I'm pretty green when it comes to Unix sysadmin stuff so go easy... I'm genuinely interested - I'm a new Mac user who came from Linux and my biggest issue on the Mac so far is that package management isn't as good as apt. There was a discussion on HN and I was disappointed to find a lot of other people have had the same feeling.

thristian 16y ago
For what it's worth, I'm an ex-Mac user who went back to Linux because I missed apt. Of course, I do a lot of hobby programming and general messing around with open-source software; if your use-cases tend more towards pre-packaged software, you might get on perfectly well.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- spacemanaki 16y ago
  I definitely haven't written off switching back to Linux - if I ever do it will probably be because of apt (and maybe xmonad). For now, installing the vanilla versions of stuff like ruby 1.9, SBCL, mit-scheme from Macports, and pre-packaged versions of MacVim and emacs are working for me but that may not always be the case...
- _delirium 16y ago
  I do sort of both by running Debian inside Virtualbox on my Macbook as a dev environment. I especially like being able to install -dev packages to get header files/libraries into the right places, whereas on OSX, if you want to compile software that depends on anything that didn't come with XCode, it's a mess of manually extracting things and passing pathnames. I don't go the whole way and just install Debian on the machine mostly because having OSX handle things like the touchpad driver, hibernation, wifi, etc., is less hassle, and I also like OSX as a desktop environment (e.g. being able to use multitouch gestures in the browser). But Linux in a VM is definitely a nicer experience imo than fink was, as a way of getting a parallel Unix CLI userland onto OSX.
  - technomancy 16y ago
    > I don't go the whole way and just install Debian on the machine mostly because having OSX handle things like the touchpad driver, hibernation, wifi, etc., is less hassle Have you tried this recently, or do you just say that because it's the stereotype? Because it's been over three years since I had any hardware trouble with Ubuntu. These days I have more issues on my friend's OS X Macbook (no drivers for 3G modems out of the box) than I do on Ubuntu where everything just works.
bravo_sierra 16y ago
MacPorts can be hard to grep if you haven't used a BSD before (not that it's great anyway), and Fink is a bit more painful than apt et al. If you're on OSX, the ace up it's sleeve is Homebrew[1]. Definitely the easiest package management system anywhere. [1]: http://github.com/mxcl/homebrew http://github.com/mxcl/homebrew
- spacemanaki 16y ago
  I'd forgotten about Homebrew but found it again when I went hunting for the earlier discussion on HN... I'll definitely be checking it out soon, thanks.
mnutt 16y ago
You should check out Homebrew for Mac. I've found it a little bit more reliable than Macports, and it's actually reasonably easy to create your own packages. To create a new package you can just `brew create http://foo.org/crufty-package.tar.gz` http://foo.org/crufty-package.tar.gz` and 90% of the time the generated recipe just works and the other 10% it requires you to tweak the (quite readable) ruby file. Also, while Homebrew has an official repo, it's managed through git and hosted on Github. So for any given piece of software, chances are pretty good that someone out there has packaged it.
deleted 16y ago
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jfb 16y ago
Homebrew is the best, but I always end up building everything I need from scratch, because I'm paranoid that some idiot package maintainer will require some tiny library that will necessitate building and installing X11, which software is largely the reason I use a goddamn Macintosh in the first place. Also, Interface Builder.

retube 16y ago

fedora- are you talking about rpm? Yes, this is a nightmare- package conflicts are common-place, and generally a real b*tch to fix. RPM was the main reason I ditched Fedora and switched to Ubuntu. In 3 years I don't think I've ever had an install failure or conflict or any problem with apt-get. It's always worked flawlessly.