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The trigger here is ICE. For many people in this country, anything ICE does is bad now.
by matte_black 8y ago
The trigger here is ICE. For many people in this country, anything ICE does is bad now.
- s73v3r_ 8y agoWell, when you rip kids from parents seeking asylum, and then can't even get them back to their parents in a timely manner, yeah, people get upset.
- CzechTech 8y agoMaybe don't try to cross the border illegaly then? Seems like a valid deterrent to me.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> don't try to cross the border illegaly then? I'm an American citizen. I don't like that my visits to and from a mall being automatically collected by private company for a federal agency with domestic policing capabilities. One can construct a Fourth Amendment case critical of this practice that is completely agnostic towards the illegal immigration debate.
- InclinedPlane 8y agoYou have no clue what you're talking about, you're just parroting a line you've been fed.
- dang 8y agoYou've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly lately. We ban accounts that do that, so please stop doing it, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mikeash 8y agoIndeed. While we’re at it, let’s institute summary execution for thieves. It’s bound to reduce crime.
- InclinedPlane 8y agoWe already have that in America. There are around a thousand summary executions for minor crimes a year in the US. You may be more familiar with them by the name "officer involved shootings".
- wjp3 8y agoI thought I saw a turnip truck drive by. Did you fall off?
- dang 8y agoPersonal attacks will get you banned here, so please don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- GVIrish 8y agoFirst time illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor. Should people have their children forcibly separated from them and shipped to detention centers for a speeding ticket? Jaywalking? Drunk in public? Inflicting cruelty on innocent children is not a reasonable deterrent in a civilized society that has any intention of being moral or just.
- User23 8y agoPretty sure if you’re drunk in public with your kids and get arrested you will in fact be forcibly separated. Also this is a great example of static thinking, because it completely ignores dynamic effects. Ban family separation, how humane! Second order effect: incentivize bringing children when committing crimes. A sane and compassionate, as well as moral and just, society doesn’t want to encourage bring your kids to crime day either.
- vageli 8y agoI think they were pointing out that you typically get issued a summons in lieu of arrest for misdemeanors.
- GVIrish 8y ago> Pretty sure if you’re drunk in public with your kids and get arrested you will in fact be forcibly separated. For a misdemeanor the police are absolutely not going to take someone's children and ship them to detention centers in other states with no clear way of getting them back or even getting in touch with them. Most of the time a misdemeanor means showing up to court and paying a fine. > Also this is a great example of static thinking, because it completely ignores dynamic effects. Ban family separation, how humane! Second order effect: incentivize bringing children when committing crimes. That doesn't make any sense. Currently, even someone who is charged with one or more felonies does not have their children taken away from them and shipped elsewhere. The only time that would happen is in cases of neglect or abuse. Does that mean our justice system is incentivizing felonies? No. Bottom line is that the law can be enforced just fine without a barbaric policy that harms children for the sins of their parents.
- mikeash 8y agoThe trigger is private companies handing over people’s info to law enforcement en masse without a warrant. s/ICE/FBI/ and people would still be upset. Maybe a bit less just because the FBI occasionally goes after actually dangerous people.
- User23 8y agoIt’s public information. You don’t have an expectation of privacy about your license plate. The exact opposite is true: you’re legally required to display it prominently whenever your vehicle is on the public highway. ICE goes after human traffickers too.
- mikeash 8y agoWhat’s your point? All sorts of public information is not shared en masse with law enforcement. I’m not trying to argue that this is somehow illegal. This company isn’t committing a crime, they’re just assholes.
- User23 8y agoI don’t think reporting criminals to the police makes one an asshole. If you want open borders that’s fine. We have a congress and they can legally pass that policy. Write your representative and senators or something.
- mikeash 8y agoThey’re not reporting criminals, they’re reporting everyone. This has nothing to do with open borders. Why would you even bring that up?
- matte_black 8y agoWhen everyone is reported, no one is. When everyone is tracked, no one is.
- pluto9 8y agoOpposing datapoint here: I approve of ICE's mission, but think large-scale surveillance is an unethical implementation of it. Modern criminal law in the West is built on the presumption of innocence. Invading the privacy of many people who are practically guaranteed to be innocent for the sake of finding one criminal that may be hiding among them is directly contrary to that. It is not wrong for the NSA to try to find terrorists, but it is wrong for them to sift through my text messages "just in case" when they have no reason to believe I'm involved in terrorism. It is not wrong for police to enforce laws, but it is wrong for them to stop you and search your car without any reason to believe you've committed a crime. It is not wrong for ICE to secure our borders, but it is wrong for them to track the movements of millions of everyday people lest they find that one has a pattern of movement that may suggest people smuggling.