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There is another way that recently gets a lot of attention, and it is drug-free. It's called "fasting". The practice is very old (holy books speak of it). Only
by cies 8y ago
There is another way that recently gets a lot of attention, and it is drug-free. It's called "fasting". The practice is very old (holy books speak of it). Only recently one of fasting's method has been understood as "autophagy", which means "self-eating". When your body is starved for nutrients it turns to it's own tissues, and eats the weak/unhealthy cells first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy
The 2016 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine was awarded to Japan’s Dr. Yoshinori Ohsumi for his discoveries of the underlying mechanisms of autophagy.
I found a lot of interest on YT for this topic, and related "fasting" topics. With alternative "healers" gaining huge following with treatments that include fasting. Note worthy are Dr Morse (mostly juice fasts) and the Master Fast System (mostly intermittent fasts). Also I see a lot of people doing long water-fasts in combination with strength training for rapid weight loss.
Its a very interesting subject to me, and I have done some experiments with it myself, not without results.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoHmmm... perhaps the "self-eating" is consuming those weakened cells. They may be the first to get consumed when the body needs the nutrients it's deprived of.
- sametmax 8y agoYes, autophagy is selective. That's the main selling point of long duration fasting. But it's only half useful. You have to go back to regular eating with a balanced diet, otherwise you don't get as much benefits as you could since reconstruction needs quality building blocks.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago> Yes, autophagy is selective. Is it? How does it affect lean body mass and muscle mass?
- your-nanny 8y agowhat about brain cells?
- sametmax 8y agoI haven't read any study on brain cells specifically. My guess would be that the mechanism is the same and is not locally different according to the different body parts but i can't be sure.
- sametmax 8y agoIt will always eat a bit of it, even sane muscle, the process is not perfect. But old cells and sick cells are prioritized. That's one reason it has benefits in combination with chemo therapy : the body will target the cancer cells. Not only those, but it's enough to help. Same with weak joints, old muscle bruises, etc. But again, eating properly after the fast is important to let the body rebuild what it destroyed.
- dawhizkid 8y agoKeto + intermittent fasting is a great combo. You just feel better and less bloated day to day.
- voidlogic 8y agoThe hypothesis I have heard is that fasting and keto both result in ketone bodies and ketone bodies result in the cellular optimization (culling old cells so not spent precious energy resources on less efficient older cells). IF this is correct, it means keto and fasting both accomplish the same thing in terms of life extension, only with keto you get to eat bacon, steak and cabbage, spinach, brussel sprouts, etc rather than starve and be miserable. :D
- sametmax 8y agoFasting have other benefits than keto: it activates your immune system, increase you hormone levels, allows many organs to rest and clean themself. On top of the ketose, you $ start a selective autophagy process that improves further the cellular optimization. You can perfectly use both if you know what you are doing. They don't mutually exclude. Although day to day keto is a lot of fat and meat. You may want to favor the vegetable part of keto after a long fast for some time.
- voidlogic 8y ago>Although day to day keto is a lot of fat and meat. People who do keto do get a majority of their calories from fat, but a majority of long term ketors tend to eat mostly low NET carb vegetables by volume. For example, you could eat a whole small cabbage in a day and not fall outside macros that would allow for a ketogenic state. >Fasting have other benefits than keto: it activates your immune system, increase you hormone levels, allows many organs to rest and clean themself. I have seen studies that show many of these as the same benifits of keto. For example, NAFLD resolves within only slightly longer on keto than by fasting. Keto is pretty effective at resolving PCOS for example. Now, it maybe the case that fasting is more actually effective, but keto unlike fasting is sustainable as a long term lifestyle (conserves LBM etc). As you pointed out, intermittent fasting and keto are completely compatible.
- madeuptempacct 8y agoI hear so much of this fasting hype lately. People seem to conveniently forget that you: 1. Lose all your muscle mass. 2. Suffer malnutrition. 3. Destroy your stomach lining due to too much acid building up. All for zero proven benefit. But hey, people like TDD too, so I don't hold it against you.
- sushid 8y agoPeople also seem to conveniently forget that being overweight is a problem. Also, intermittent fasting has none of the downsides you've mentioned.
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- joefranklinsrs 8y agoI don't know how you were fasting (or if you actually tried fasting) I have been doing intermittent fasting 3 days a week, each time 24 hours, for 6 months. I've lost 35 pounds thus far. 1.) I am still doing the same weights as 6 months ago, some muscle groups even more. I make sure I have a protein shake after. 2.) I did blood testing for everything with my doctor 3 months ago and last week. My doctor says i'm perfectly healthy 3.) again, if you're eating alot of complex carbohydrates after fasting, or before, your stomach will have more acids. the key is to reduce your complex carbs as well
- intothev01d 8y agoExactly how long do you need to fast to "lose all muscle mass" and "suffer malnutrition". You mean continual intermittent fasting or just not eating for a long duration? Any sources on this?
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- everdrive 8y agoYour criticisms are valid, however given the audience I doubt most Americans would actually 'fast,' and instead would simply skip dinner, wake up actually-hungry instead of just salty-fat-hungry, and perhaps lose a few pounds. Plus, light fasting (aka, skipping a couple of meals) actually feels really good!
- feefie 8y agoYou might have already seen this BBC program, but if not I suspect you will enjoy it: https://vimeo.com/170735109 https://vimeo.com/170735109
- quantum_magpie 8y agoWould you have any nice references to the long-fast + strength training? Whenever I've tried longer than 3-day fasts, any sort of excess exercise would cause a significantly unpleasant feeling and light-headedness.
- cies 8y agoThere is not too much scientific "papers" on this topic. But there's a guy named "Chris" on YT with a channel named "A Healthy Alternative" and he does interviews with people about their journey/progress/methods. I really like that channel for specifically this water-fast + strength training topic. There is something about taking some salts/electrolites/minerals with your water at some point to counter some things like light-headedness.
- quantum_magpie 8y agoThanks for the suggestions! They're greatly appreciated.
- cies 8y agoMost welcome. I live for this stuff lately. It has empowered my a lot. "Kidney filtration", "mucoid plaque", "gall and liver stone purge"; and the names are Morse, MFS, Ehret, Spira. Search for the term just mentioned on YT - and do not follow blindly. I'm just getting started myself and already the results are amazing. There's also a lot about food when you are not fasting, and this more often IS backed by science (fasting is only recently picking up interest in the scientific comm); see names like: Greger(!), McDouggal, Fuhrman, Eisselstein, M. Klaper, Barbara Popper. The workout thing has also been very well researched (you do not need much time to get big results), here see the bodyweightfitness routine on reddit, and AthleanX. A couple of hours a week is all it takes. I do gym bouldering myself, as it is a more fun way to do strength training (and strength training give most bang for the hours). Good luck! I hope you get the same incredible results!
- cies 8y agoOh, and check out Tim Shieff current videos, he's an athlete and now on a 35+ day water fast (prolly going for the biblical 40 days). Really cool guy also. He takes quite some inspiration from a guys named Shaun, who also documented some really long fasts lately.