3 ms·

Hopefully for export, otherwise they'll unfortunately mostly be powered by coal :(

Retric 8y ago
China uses more coal and produces more CO2 for electricity, but uses less total fossil fuels (60.6%) than the US (64.2%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China VS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit... China has a significantly higher % of it's electricity generated from renewables than the USA and a much faster adoption curve. So, adding electric cars is still a very large net gain for the environment over IC cars.
- mikeash 8y ago
  The US is about 1/3rd coal, 1/3rd gas, and the rest carbon neutral (mostly nuclear). China is about 2/3rds coal, a tiny bit of other burning stuff, and the rest carbon neutral (mostly hydro). Looks to me like the US is much better for emissions. Especially since US coal plants are probably a lot cleaner.
  - Retric 8y ago
    China is ~56.4% coal and dropping fast which is a long way from 2/3's. This is down from 81% in 2007 so having recent numbers is really important. USA happens to have a lot of natural gas which is better than coal for the environment but still much worse than solar/wind etc. Further, because they still use a lot of coal and they use more total fossil fuels it's not as a big a difference as you might think. Really the important question is what is going to come online to fuel electric cars, and that mix is vastly better than oil especially when you include extraction, transportation, and refinement. PS: China is something like ~58% coal equivalent vs ~47% USA coal equivalent (assuming natural gas produces 1/2 the carbon of coal.)
    - ryanmercer 8y ago
      >China’s energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-comp...
      - Retric 8y ago
        That's not saying what you think it's saying. "Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world." Coal is very much on the way out, but it's not quite useless yet. Far more coal power plants are going to be destroyed in the next 10 years than built. But, if you are going to build a coal powerplant then paying a Chinese company can be a good choice.
        ryanmercer 8y ago
        Fact is, they're building more coal plants in the country because they can more quickly meet energy demands with coal and as of last September the world was building coal plants faster than they were being closed (and I suspect China is).
        Retric 8y ago
        "Shanghai Electric Group, one of the country's largest electrical equipment makers, has announced plans to build coal power plants in Egypt, Pakistan and Iran with a total capacity of 6,285 megawatts — almost 10 times the 660 megawatts of coal power it has planned in China." So yea china is still building some coal but not that much looking at actual production presents a different story. Electricity production in China (TWh) From coal 2014 4,354 2015 4,115 2016 3,906 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China

China uses more coal and produces more CO2 for electricity, but uses less total fossil fuels (60.6%) than the US (64.2%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China VS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit... China has a significantly higher % of it's electricity generated from renewables than the USA and a much faster adoption curve. So, adding electric cars is still a very large net gain for the environment over IC cars.

mikeash 8y ago
The US is about 1/3rd coal, 1/3rd gas, and the rest carbon neutral (mostly nuclear). China is about 2/3rds coal, a tiny bit of other burning stuff, and the rest carbon neutral (mostly hydro). Looks to me like the US is much better for emissions. Especially since US coal plants are probably a lot cleaner.
- Retric 8y ago
  China is ~56.4% coal and dropping fast which is a long way from 2/3's. This is down from 81% in 2007 so having recent numbers is really important. USA happens to have a lot of natural gas which is better than coal for the environment but still much worse than solar/wind etc. Further, because they still use a lot of coal and they use more total fossil fuels it's not as a big a difference as you might think. Really the important question is what is going to come online to fuel electric cars, and that mix is vastly better than oil especially when you include extraction, transportation, and refinement. PS: China is something like ~58% coal equivalent vs ~47% USA coal equivalent (assuming natural gas produces 1/2 the carbon of coal.)
  - ryanmercer 8y ago
    >China’s energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-comp...
    - Retric 8y ago
      That's not saying what you think it's saying. "Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world." Coal is very much on the way out, but it's not quite useless yet. Far more coal power plants are going to be destroyed in the next 10 years than built. But, if you are going to build a coal powerplant then paying a Chinese company can be a good choice.
      - ryanmercer 8y ago
        Fact is, they're building more coal plants in the country because they can more quickly meet energy demands with coal and as of last September the world was building coal plants faster than they were being closed (and I suspect China is).
        Retric 8y ago
        "Shanghai Electric Group, one of the country's largest electrical equipment makers, has announced plans to build coal power plants in Egypt, Pakistan and Iran with a total capacity of 6,285 megawatts — almost 10 times the 660 megawatts of coal power it has planned in China." So yea china is still building some coal but not that much looking at actual production presents a different story. Electricity production in China (TWh) From coal 2014 4,354 2015 4,115 2016 3,906 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China