4 ms·

The car dealer should have accounted for that risk in their interest rate. If the recipient of the car didn't sign anything, they should not be liable to return

by xamuel 8y ago

The car dealer should have accounted for that risk in their interest rate. If the recipient of the car didn't sign anything, they should not be liable to return car or money. What if I took out a payment plan to buy a sandwich, gave the sandwich to a homeless man, and then died without finishing all the payments? You say the homeless man should be obligated to give up the sandwich??

yebyen 8y ago
A car is not a sandwich, just like a credit card is not a potted plant? I used the specific example of a car as something that has legal constructs for an actual document called a title of ownership, where there can be a lien on the title, etc. If the dealer has a lien against the title of the car, then yes, you give back that car when the order to repossess is issued. You think the lien is cleared because the debtor passed away? It doesn't work like that. The ownership of the car is based on a transfer of title, and though you may be driving the car, possession is "only 9/10" of the law. If the title is not in your name, then it is not your car. You're just driving it. Such cases I'm fairly certain that it's actually the title that says who owns the car. If you gave a homeless man a sandwich, paid for with a credit card, and then you died owing money on that card, then yes, that man probably has clear title to keep the sandwich.
julianj 8y ago
If a person takes out a loan to buy a car then the financing company actually holds the title to the vehicle. You can't give away something you don't own.
- yebyen 8y ago
  Where I've unfortunately made the water a bit muddy here because the story is about a credit card and not a car, is that you don't usually buy a car with a credit card. (But hypothetically if you do, and it was simply processed as a regular card transaction, would the credit card company potentially have any claim on the title?)
  - toast0 8y ago
    In the US, a credit card company doesn't generally have any claim on the merchandise, credit cards are an unsecured loan, and the claim is on dollars from the account holder and/or card holder or their estates. In case of fraud or bankruptcy, there may be some clawback opportunities on transactions though.
    - yebyen 8y ago
      Yes, thank you, this clarifies what I'm trying to express. I did not know the difference between a secured and an unsecured loan and that explains a lot. Cases of fraud or bankruptcy are really what I'm mainly talking about. In most cases where the actual estate is not in the red, the estate will pay the debt and nothing should get repo'ed. If there were a lot of gifts made and cash transferred shortly before the person died, and now the estate is broke, then someone from the creditors' side is likely to seek more information about it, and exercise clawback opportunities.
      - toast0 8y ago
        In bankruptcy, there's a period of transactions that can be reversed, up to 12 months for close relationship. But it probably becomes rapidly difficult to identify these transactions after the borrower dies. I would expect most creditors to send a couple letters and write off the debt, unless it was egregious.

by xamuel 8y ago

yebyen 8y ago

A car is not a sandwich, just like a credit card is not a potted plant? I used the specific example of a car as something that has legal constructs for an actual document called a title of ownership, where there can be a lien on the title, etc. If the dealer has a lien against the title of the car, then yes, you give back that car when the order to repossess is issued. You think the lien is cleared because the debtor passed away? It doesn't work like that. The ownership of the car is based on a transfer of title, and though you may be driving the car, possession is "only 9/10" of the law. If the title is not in your name, then it is not your car. You're just driving it. Such cases I'm fairly certain that it's actually the title that says who owns the car. If you gave a homeless man a sandwich, paid for with a credit card, and then you died owing money on that card, then yes, that man probably has clear title to keep the sandwich.

julianj 8y ago

If a person takes out a loan to buy a car then the financing company actually holds the title to the vehicle. You can't give away something you don't own.

yebyen 8y ago
Where I've unfortunately made the water a bit muddy here because the story is about a credit card and not a car, is that you don't usually buy a car with a credit card. (But hypothetically if you do, and it was simply processed as a regular card transaction, would the credit card company potentially have any claim on the title?)
- toast0 8y ago
  In the US, a credit card company doesn't generally have any claim on the merchandise, credit cards are an unsecured loan, and the claim is on dollars from the account holder and/or card holder or their estates. In case of fraud or bankruptcy, there may be some clawback opportunities on transactions though.
  - yebyen 8y ago
    Yes, thank you, this clarifies what I'm trying to express. I did not know the difference between a secured and an unsecured loan and that explains a lot. Cases of fraud or bankruptcy are really what I'm mainly talking about. In most cases where the actual estate is not in the red, the estate will pay the debt and nothing should get repo'ed. If there were a lot of gifts made and cash transferred shortly before the person died, and now the estate is broke, then someone from the creditors' side is likely to seek more information about it, and exercise clawback opportunities.
    - toast0 8y ago
      In bankruptcy, there's a period of transactions that can be reversed, up to 12 months for close relationship. But it probably becomes rapidly difficult to identify these transactions after the borrower dies. I would expect most creditors to send a couple letters and write off the debt, unless it was egregious.