7 ms·

To an extent, (in the eyes of the business) she was actively acting as a representative of the product (discussing the development of the product) and bashing t

by Arzh 8y ago

To an extent, (in the eyes of the business) she was actively acting as a representative of the product (discussing the development of the product) and bashing the users of the product (calling them asshats). If that is harmful to the business it doesn't matter if it's on "your time". I would view this differently if she was fired for a tweet that was political in nature or something like it. If I was in charge I'm not sure I would have done the same thing but I can understand the reasoning.

chc 8y ago
Your position here seems to be opposed to anyone who works for a company having any kind of free speech. Please consider whether this is a position that is maximally good for society. She didn't say anything offensive or harmful, just expressed frustration with a pattern of communication that she gets.
- ars 8y ago
  > having any kind of free speech Exaggerate much? Don't speak as a representative of your company. It's not that hard. You can talk about anything else you like, but don't make people think it's coming from the company. Free speech doesn't give you the right to put words in other peoples', or companies' mouths.
  - chc 8y ago
    She wasn't speaking as a representative of the company there. I don't see how you could possibly construe it that way. Here's what she said: > Today in being a female game dev: "Allow me--a person who does not work with you--explain to you how you do your job." If you did take that as an official company statement, it would seem to mean that ArenaNet's official position is that ArenaNet is a female developer who is tired of having her job explained to her by men. It's such a tortured and nonsensical interpretation of her comment that I can't see how you'd read it as anything but her personal feelings as a female game developer.
- Sacho 8y ago
  > She didn't say anything offensive or harmful Well, this is what she said(during the incident, she's said much worse in other cases), do you still think she didn't say anything offensive or harmful? https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014554296107483136 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014554296107483136 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445 https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504 https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504
  - chc 8y ago
    Yes, I still think she didn't say anything offensive or harmful. All she did is express frustration at the way people interact with her. She didn't call for anyone to be fired, she didn't talk about how such-and-such people are subhuman, she just said she found a pattern of communication frustrating.
- wolco 8y ago
  Playing this up so it is a gender issue does harm all who have suffered.
  - chc 8y ago
    How could you see it as anything but a gender issue? Expressing frustration at the way female devs are treated is what they got fired for. What do you reckon it's actually about if not gender? Checkers? Ethics in gaming journalism?
    - trashcan 8y ago
      An employee being rude to their customer.
    - Sacho 8y ago
      How was she treated that's specific to female devs? Literally every decision made by Ghostcrawler/Holinka was scrutinized and criticized to oblivion. See this tweet(https://twitter.com/devolore/status/930185729120002048 https://twitter.com/devolore/status/930185729120002048) by Josh Allen "expressing his frustration" at the way all developers are treated. What Jessica Price did was much more: - she insulted a polite fan(and big community figure) by indirectly calling them a "rando asshat"(https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504 https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504) - she insulted all fans trying to engage with her by saying "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here."(https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445). ANet has a culture of positive interaction between fans and devs, and devs share their love of the game with the community. This was pointlessly inflammatory and against ANet's image. Maybe she didn't actually mean these things. Maybe she was just expressing her frustration, as you said. But her actions say otherwise - she did not apologize, she has only gone on further to attack her (now former) employer, the fanbase in general, to claim victimhood after flinging shit at them. Those are not the actions of someone who was just expressing their frustration - to me, it seems like she really has contempt for GW fans. Why do you hold Jessica Price to such a low standard? I don't recall Ghostcrawler ever calling fans "asshats", and he had plenty more negative attention, including constant death threats. I don't agree that anyone should be subject to this kind of pressure, but I also don't agree that a dev should be supported when they trash the delicate connection between a company and its customers with careless comments like "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here".
FussyZeus 8y ago
She called people who'd never worked in her field, who were telling her to do her job, asshats. And I feel that descriptor suits them. More to the point, as I originally postulated: Are we now in a place where your employer just has free reign to regulate and permit your speech off the clock? Yeah, she talked about her job, like people have since time immemorial. She probably also called her boss a dick occasionally behind his back, and might've even left her desk in a bad mood. Are these all going to be fireable offenses? Are we just never ever allowed to say "you know I like my job and my coworkers, and overall am pleased with my career, but goddamn that guy Joe we sell to is an idiot."?
- Arzh 8y ago
  Freedom of speech means you can't be arrested for saying something, not that a business that employs you can't fire you for saying something the disagree with. When A&E retaliated against the duck dynasty guy for saying gay people are gross I was on their side too.
- wolco 8y ago
  Twitter allows you to signup using whatever name you wish. So does this site. People who choose to represent a company did under a real name with a link to the company can't cry free speach because they choose to represent something.
- davrosthedalek 8y ago
  Her free speech was not regulated, she can say whatever she wants. She didn't break any laws. The state is not prosecuting her. And everybody else has the freedom of (non-)association.

by Arzh 8y ago

chc 8y ago

Your position here seems to be opposed to anyone who works for a company having any kind of free speech. Please consider whether this is a position that is maximally good for society. She didn't say anything offensive or harmful, just expressed frustration with a pattern of communication that she gets.

ars 8y ago
> having any kind of free speech Exaggerate much? Don't speak as a representative of your company. It's not that hard. You can talk about anything else you like, but don't make people think it's coming from the company. Free speech doesn't give you the right to put words in other peoples', or companies' mouths.
- chc 8y ago
  She wasn't speaking as a representative of the company there. I don't see how you could possibly construe it that way. Here's what she said: > Today in being a female game dev: "Allow me--a person who does not work with you--explain to you how you do your job." If you did take that as an official company statement, it would seem to mean that ArenaNet's official position is that ArenaNet is a female developer who is tired of having her job explained to her by men. It's such a tortured and nonsensical interpretation of her comment that I can't see how you'd read it as anything but her personal feelings as a female game developer.
Sacho 8y ago
> She didn't say anything offensive or harmful Well, this is what she said(during the incident, she's said much worse in other cases), do you still think she didn't say anything offensive or harmful? https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014554296107483136 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014554296107483136 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445 https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504 https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504
- chc 8y ago
  Yes, I still think she didn't say anything offensive or harmful. All she did is express frustration at the way people interact with her. She didn't call for anyone to be fired, she didn't talk about how such-and-such people are subhuman, she just said she found a pattern of communication frustrating.
wolco 8y ago
Playing this up so it is a gender issue does harm all who have suffered.
- chc 8y ago
  How could you see it as anything but a gender issue? Expressing frustration at the way female devs are treated is what they got fired for. What do you reckon it's actually about if not gender? Checkers? Ethics in gaming journalism?
  - trashcan 8y ago
    An employee being rude to their customer.
  - Sacho 8y ago
    How was she treated that's specific to female devs? Literally every decision made by Ghostcrawler/Holinka was scrutinized and criticized to oblivion. See this tweet(https://twitter.com/devolore/status/930185729120002048 https://twitter.com/devolore/status/930185729120002048) by Josh Allen "expressing his frustration" at the way all developers are treated. What Jessica Price did was much more: - she insulted a polite fan(and big community figure) by indirectly calling them a "rando asshat"(https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504 https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1014555719352213504) - she insulted all fans trying to engage with her by saying "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here."(https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1014581433937981445). ANet has a culture of positive interaction between fans and devs, and devs share their love of the game with the community. This was pointlessly inflammatory and against ANet's image. Maybe she didn't actually mean these things. Maybe she was just expressing her frustration, as you said. But her actions say otherwise - she did not apologize, she has only gone on further to attack her (now former) employer, the fanbase in general, to claim victimhood after flinging shit at them. Those are not the actions of someone who was just expressing their frustration - to me, it seems like she really has contempt for GW fans. Why do you hold Jessica Price to such a low standard? I don't recall Ghostcrawler ever calling fans "asshats", and he had plenty more negative attention, including constant death threats. I don't agree that anyone should be subject to this kind of pressure, but I also don't agree that a dev should be supported when they trash the delicate connection between a company and its customers with careless comments like "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here".

FussyZeus 8y ago

She called people who'd never worked in her field, who were telling her to do her job, asshats. And I feel that descriptor suits them. More to the point, as I originally postulated: Are we now in a place where your employer just has free reign to regulate and permit your speech off the clock? Yeah, she talked about her job, like people have since time immemorial. She probably also called her boss a dick occasionally behind his back, and might've even left her desk in a bad mood. Are these all going to be fireable offenses? Are we just never ever allowed to say "you know I like my job and my coworkers, and overall am pleased with my career, but goddamn that guy Joe we sell to is an idiot."?

Arzh 8y ago
Freedom of speech means you can't be arrested for saying something, not that a business that employs you can't fire you for saying something the disagree with. When A&E retaliated against the duck dynasty guy for saying gay people are gross I was on their side too.
wolco 8y ago
Twitter allows you to signup using whatever name you wish. So does this site. People who choose to represent a company did under a real name with a link to the company can't cry free speach because they choose to represent something.
davrosthedalek 8y ago
Her free speech was not regulated, she can say whatever she wants. She didn't break any laws. The state is not prosecuting her. And everybody else has the freedom of (non-)association.